How much difference does oil really make?

[4WD]

GM is betting it makes all the difference in the world

How?

 

[4WD]

No offense, but how do you know that Kirkland/Supertech/house brands, "just meet the bare minimum requirements". This sounds like your assumption, based on the price of these oils. These Warren produced oils have zero advertising budget that needs to be offset by higher prices. Sometimes, cheap is good, without compromise. Without facts, it's just a guess or opinion.

That’s like saying you know that a major spends more on advertising than they save by owning the plant making the base stock …

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

What do you mean when you say cheaper oil? I hope you don't mean Mobil 1, Pennzoil, and Castrol. I highly doubt the above three will leave anything for VRP to clean, unless the engine has some design issues like in Glenda's case that has made me nervous about my sister's Subaru Outback

What year is the Outback?

 

[Nessism1]

That’s like saying you know that a major spends more on advertising than they save by owning the plant making the base stock …

I don't know what these companies spend on advertising, nor what they spend on "base stock". What I do know is that there is NO data showing Warren oils "just meet the bare minimum requirements". If you have such data share.

 

[Glenda W.]

That’s like saying you know that a major spends more on advertising than they save by owning the plant making the base stock …

Only thing known for sure is a company won’t leave money on the table and will charge as much as possible for as little as possible.

 

[4WD]

I don't know what these companies spend on advertising, nor what they spend on "base stock". What I do know is that there is NO data showing Warren oils "just meet the bare minimum requirements". If you have such data share.

I think Overkill has posted why EHC was produced - pretty obvious since Warren is a big buyer … Price matters and in the USA - “synthetic” can be met with a good shot of EHC …

 

[John105]

This being a hobbyist site, we tend to get into "how many angels fit on the head of a pin?" territory quite often. And some people are very particular/anxious about what they use in their vehicles, so you're going to get a lot of very specific answers.

But the truth is that the vast majority of vehicles out there run for the entirety of their service lives without any oil related problems. Lots run 200k or more on bargain oil changed at indifferent intervals.

Look at it this way; if it was hard to get to the end of a car's lifetime without doing/using something specific, we'd ALL know what those specific things are- that sort of knowledge would disseminate through the automotive population quickly- mechanics would want to provide that service, oil companies would want to sell that oil, etc... and they'd all want us to know that they do.

But all we've got is "use the manufacturer rated oil in the recommended weight and follow the manual", and those are all over the place. Chances are that it really doesn't matter much at all, as long as you aren't buying "Ring Seal" API SA from the dollar store, or changing your oil as often as you change your tires.

Ha on a tune I used to play, “Let it Grow,” it went, “as well to count the angels dancing on a pin.”

In my shade tree career I’ve often used what people said met the standards and they liked, and made economical sense. PP, M1, Wix, etc. Today I’m willing use Costco oil. Even Walmart. I would look for it to meet specs.

 

[Sienna dude]

What year is the Outback?

2022

 

[Starving Electrician]

How?

The GM recall for bearing issues in the 6.2 V8 they run in trucks. Part of the recall is to move to a 0w-40 from a 0w-20. Thats not about brand or quality thats about viscosity because hate on "thickies" if you like. The truth of the matter is though thicker oil does protect engines better, and tolerates a wider range of sub optimal operating conditions.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

2022

Nothing to worry about with those years. Grab any 5w30 mid-shelf up at WM, change at 6k, and carry on like a soccer mom.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Only thing known for sure is a company won’t leave money on the table and will charge as much as possible for as little as possible.

Umm, better check that 3-letter company acronym again that’s on your shelf and give them kudos! I don’t even want to fathom what some of those product lines would cost if they had an XOM- or RDS-brand on the label!

 

[thetricky]

I'll add this to the discussion USE CASE, USE CASE, USE CASE. The difference between something being great and terrible is how you use it. What I mean is if you get a set of Craftsman screw drivers to use at home you may have them for 40 years and they will serve you great, but as a professional industrial electrician I cant keep a craftsman screwdriver for more than 2 or 3 months until I break it. Does that mean Craftsman is bad? No it means I am using it outside what it's meant for.

If you run a name brand synthetic oil for extended drain intervals bevause you pay for oil changes then that makes sense. If you run a boutique oil in your hot rod then yeah that makes sense and it fits your use case. If you run a store brand oil in your commuter car you drive 25 miles one way to work and change it every 5k. It will work great for you because it fits your use case.

If you are running a boutique oil in your commuter car that drives under the conditions previously described then you're throwing away money for what amounts to zero benefit. The same as buying a set of insulated Klien screwdrivers for light use at home every few months. It's all about use case and proper upkeep.

Please, explain why running a boutique in a commuter is throwing away money.

 

[Sienna dude]

Please, explain why running a boutique in a commuter is throwing away money.

Because good old Mobil 1 from Walmart at a shorter oci does an equally good job. UNLESS, your engine has some design issues. Million mile Tundras and Tacomas towing and hauling never tasted any Boutique oil.
Amazing companies like Mazda don't even care what oil you run, they just tell you to change your darn oil in the owner's manual

Having said all that, nothing is more valuable than your peace of mind, so run the best oil if you can afford it. Ignore the naysayers. I would have loved to hoard HPL if fuel dilution wasn't my problem.

 

[ripcord]

Please, explain why running a boutique in a commuter is throwing away money.

Because unless there is a design defect or metallurgy problem, the engine in a typical modern car will still be functional when they drag it to the crusher, so long as a reasonable maintenance schedule has been followed using to spec oil.

 

[thetricky]

Because good old Mobil 1 from Walmart at a shorter oci does an equally good job. UNLESS, your engine has some design issues. Million mile Tundras and Tacomas towing and hauling never tasted any Boutique oil.
Amazing companies like Mazda don't even care what oil you run, they just tell you to change your darn oil in the owner's manual

Having said all that, nothing is more valuable than your peace of mind, so run the best oil if you can afford it. Ignore the naysayers. I would have loved to hoard HPL if fuel dilution wasn't my problem.

Two advantages to boutiques:
1. Excellent value proposition: run the lube longer with no ill side effects, paying less for maintenance in the long run.
2. Keeping the biggest killer of ICE machines at bay (outside of wrecks of course.) stuck piston rings, which lead to oil burning and snowballs into other issues. A number of good examples of that on this site.

I have to add, that they are not as expensive as people make them out to be if used like they where designed, especially if one orders them when they have sales, 4th of July or Black Friday for example.

Because unless there is a design defect or metallurgy problem, the engine in a typical modern car will still be functional when they drag it to the crusher, so long as a reasonable maintenance schedule has been followed using to spec oil.

I don't want the spec oil, I want a lube that has been crafted above and beyond that. The API spec is a pretty low bar, Euro spec oils are a different beast. OTC oils are suppose to keep engines clean. Some they have, some they haven't, such as my experience and several others documented on this site. Could I lose the car in a wreck tomorrow and be out all my effort in maintenance efforts? Yes, of course. I am willing to take that risk because I refuse to buy a new vehicle anytime soon due to outrageous current prices.

 

[ripcord]

Two advantages to boutiques:
1. Excellent value proposition: run the lube longer with no ill side effects, paying less for maintenance in the long run.
2. Keeping the biggest killer of ICE machines at bay (outside of wrecks of course.) stuck piston rings, which lead to oil burning and snowballs into other issues. A number of good examples of that on this site.


I don't want the spec oil, I want a lube that has been crafted above and beyond that. The API spec is a pretty low bar, Euro spec oils are a different beast. OTC oils are suppose to keep engines clean. Some they have, some they haven't, such as my experience and several others documented on this site. Could I lose the car in a wreck tomorrow and be out all my effort in maintenance efforts? Yes, of course. I am willing to take that risk because I refuse to buy a new vehicle anytime soon due to outrageous current prices.

My argument is that the fancy oil does little to increase the probable life span of your typical car so long as you change it at a reasonable interval. The most likely outcome is that at some point either something non oil related will go bad that isn't economically feasible to repair or an accident that totals it.

Severe oil burning is not so prevalent as the echo chamber that is BITOG would have you think. I've owned many vehicles that reached over 200k and only one burned much oil and it did it from nearly new. What kills engines is overheating and neglect.

 

[4WD]

Two advantages to boutiques:
1. Excellent value proposition: run the lube longer with no ill side effects, paying less for maintenance in the long run.
2. Keeping the biggest killer of ICE machines at bay (outside of wrecks of course.) stuck piston rings, which lead to oil burning and snowballs into other issues. A number of good examples of that on this site.

I have to add, that they are not as expensive as people make them out to be if used like they where designed, especially if one orders them when they have sales, 4th of July or Black Friday for example.


I don't want the spec oil, I want a lube that has been crafted above and beyond that. The API spec is a pretty low bar, Euro spec oils are a different beast. OTC oils are suppose to keep engines clean. Some they have, some they haven't, such as my experience and several others documented on this site. Could I lose the car in a wreck tomorrow and be out all my effort in maintenance efforts? Yes, of course. I am willing to take that risk because I refuse to buy a new vehicle anytime soon due to outrageous current prices.

Have not owned a vehicle that burned oil since a 1979 PowerWagon that I had for 17 years … Mostly M1 …

 

[doublebase]

I just don’t think there’s much of a difference between any of these name brand licensed oils right now, they’ve all improved so much. I’ve done 10,000 mile intervals using Mobil1 and 10,000 intervals using Amsoil SS…both performed almost identical. I’m talking within 1 ppm in all wear metals combined. And I’ve run the house brands. Same thing.

 

[Starving Electrician]

Please, explain why running a boutique in a commuter is throwing away money.

Easy most of these very expensive oils are great they stand up better to extreme conditions than other oils. Whether that's better HTHS longer drain intervals and the like. A commuter car that is driven moderately on the highway will never see those conditions. So the oil will do no better of a job protecting the engine.

Now the expensive oils probably make some people feel better which is subjective, but using a boutique oil in a commuter car is like using O2 safe Krytox grease in a paintball marker (gun if you aren't a player). Yes its a better grease yes it holds up in more extreme conditions, but those are conditions a paintball marker never experiences so why spend all that extra money.

 

[mark pruett]

The GM recall for bearing issues in the 6.2 V8 they run in trucks. Part of the recall is to move to a 0w-40 from a 0w-20. Thats not about brand or quality thats about viscosity because hate on "thickies" if you like. The truth of the matter is though thicker oil does protect engines better, and tolerates a wider range of sub optimal operating conditions.

It's not nearly so simple as "thick oil good, thin oil bad".

As much as I dislike YouTube videos, this guy does a great job explaining what GM was doing and why.