How Mobil Tested Mobil 1 EP
- Thread starter buster
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Taxi cab driving isn't that severe in that the engines never cool completely down....
It's short trip driving in COLD weather that is the most severe test of any oil. This is due to the # of fuel/moisture contamination you see and the accelerated oxidation and sludging it causes.
TS
It's short trip driving in COLD weather that is the most severe test of any oil. This is due to the # of fuel/moisture contamination you see and the accelerated oxidation and sludging it causes.
TS
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I agree. Stating that the test engines ran 210,000 continuous miles and only being turned off for oil changes does nothing to test the oil in the most severe of wear conditions which is the cold, dry start.
A taxi fleet that operates a vehicle for 22 hours a day is another condition that doesn't address the wear associated with cold, dry starting. I can see how a taxi cab would be the most severe of conditions for a transmission test but I just don't buy it when talking about motor oil. Short trips are only a problem when they are short trips where the engine isn't warmed up or idle time where pressures are lower than optimum and they begin with a 'cold dry start'.
Regardless, I like the Mobil product but don't see the complete level of relevance in this test discussion.
A taxi fleet that operates a vehicle for 22 hours a day is another condition that doesn't address the wear associated with cold, dry starting. I can see how a taxi cab would be the most severe of conditions for a transmission test but I just don't buy it when talking about motor oil. Short trips are only a problem when they are short trips where the engine isn't warmed up or idle time where pressures are lower than optimum and they begin with a 'cold dry start'.
Regardless, I like the Mobil product but don't see the complete level of relevance in this test discussion.
What do I think? I think the testing was extremely comprehensive. Bench testing, which included 210,000 miles put on various engines followed by taxi cabs. Ever been in a cab in NY or Vegas? They are beat to death. Stop n go driving with AC on is tough on any engine. Lubrizol and Amsoil used Taxi cabs as well back in the early 80's. I think they know what they are doing.
A good test protocol for high temp oxidation, but not applicable for the type of low temp sludging that is an even more severe test. If I lived in a cold climate; did short trip driving; and wanted to use this oil for extended drains, these results would not give me a warm fuzzy. (seriously)
Ted
Ted
Buster,
You need to leave Jersey...the bad air is getting to your brain...
Amsoil has 32+ years of 25,000 mile/1 year drain experience behind it and over twenty years of oil analysis data from hundreds of thousands of vehicles. Heck, I've been running the stuff since 1978 - over 600,000 total miles just in my personal cars and trucks.
You can't beat experience....
Ted
You need to leave Jersey...the bad air is getting to your brain...
Amsoil has 32+ years of 25,000 mile/1 year drain experience behind it and over twenty years of oil analysis data from hundreds of thousands of vehicles. Heck, I've been running the stuff since 1978 - over 600,000 total miles just in my personal cars and trucks.
You can't beat experience....
Ted
Doesnt this describe "Olympic's" use of his vehicles in very cold and hot Saskatchewan?
More like your grandmother who drives 3 kilometers to the store once a week - and keep her car outside in the winter. That's the worse case scenerio....
Any deliver vehicle tends to keep the engine hot and running, so you don't go through repeated warmup phases. It's those first 10-20 minutes of operation with a stone cold engine that really dumps stuff into the oil.
Tooslick
Any deliver vehicle tends to keep the engine hot and running, so you don't go through repeated warmup phases. It's those first 10-20 minutes of operation with a stone cold engine that really dumps stuff into the oil.
Tooslick
BTW, I have NO doubt this stuff will easily last for 15,000-20,000 miles/1 year, since I've been running those sort of service intervals with Amsoil for the past 27 years. So it's really not that big a deal to me...
The question I have is if this EP formula will reduce the high valve train wear (iron levels), we consistently see in the garden variety Mobil 1 formulations (aside from Delvac 1 and the 15w-50). I've seen no evidence of that as yet....
Tooslick
The question I have is if this EP formula will reduce the high valve train wear (iron levels), we consistently see in the garden variety Mobil 1 formulations (aside from Delvac 1 and the 15w-50). I've seen no evidence of that as yet....
Tooslick
I was told by OAI Inc that unless Fe is greater then 100ppm, it's nothing to worry about. XOM has an oil analysis department, called Signum. Mobil 1 has been an extended drain oil in Europe for decades. It's nothing new as TS stated. Just a big corporate bully now trying to do what Amsoil has been saying for years.
Regardless of how one feels about XOM, they do make great lubricants across the board...even those used in NASA.
Seriously though, which is more believable : Amsoil TFOUT test which contradicts real world performance and done by Amsoil or this article that shows M1 going through bench, computer and real world testing? You be the judge...
Seriously though, which is more believable : Amsoil TFOUT test which contradicts real world performance and done by Amsoil or this article that shows M1 going through bench, computer and real world testing? You be the judge...
I think both Amsoil and Mobil 1 EP are very close competitors now. I like the fact that the Mobil can be had down the block at the auto parts store where as you have to anxiously wait for your Amsoil. That's hard on an oil geek!
I would like to disagree with the notion that running the AC is any kind of heavy load on the engine--especially american V8 engines with 250+ HP.
An AC consumes on the order of 5 HP, about equivalent to the amount of power consumed to run the valve train and the ancilaries at an RPM corresponding to 2X idle RPMs.
IT mauy very well be the case that running the AC dumps a lot of extracted heat into the airstream just in front of the water radiator--thereby increasing the average temps of the engine by a couple of degrees.
But a heavy load it is not....
An AC consumes on the order of 5 HP, about equivalent to the amount of power consumed to run the valve train and the ancilaries at an RPM corresponding to 2X idle RPMs.
IT mauy very well be the case that running the AC dumps a lot of extracted heat into the airstream just in front of the water radiator--thereby increasing the average temps of the engine by a couple of degrees.
But a heavy load it is not....
Yep. In the TMP oil test, the ASL 5w30 went from 11.9 cSt to 14.9 cSt in 14K miles with 4 quarts of top off oil! And the extra ppm of iron per 1K miles for the M1 is not what I would call "excessive valvetrain wear".quote:
Originally posted by buster:
I don't think Amsoil would have past XOM's test. It would have been a 50wt oil due to oxidative thickening and on cold winter days wouldn't flow well.
I think at 5 bucks a quart, it had better be a darn good oil.
Buster, you button pusher. Both fine oils. If you allow your oil to shear before oxidation, etc. take their course, it will not be as thick as a more shear resistant oil of similar constitution in the same OCI. No surprises here. I supect that M1 EP is more shear resistant than regular M1 but we don't yet know that. The EP test described eliminates M1's most significant issue from the results. Drain back with cold starts and the posibility of some valvetrain oxidation when sitting. I bet the iron #s looked better than what we normally see here. To me, the test is no biggy. Schaeffers with LC could do it.
goodvibes, all I'm saying is I think it was a comprehensive test. They went into "some" specifics about what they did. Other oils could do this no doubt. Nothing new or special here.
Regarding your shear comment, that is true. Mobil 1 EP isn't more shear stable. In fact Amsoil has now followed the pack and lowered their numbes as well. Bascially all the 30wt oils are now 3.2 HT/HS. Amsoil is growing. I'm sure they are having to please the majority more and more.
Your "picking nits" here with any of these products. I give the edge to Amsoil for lower Noak voalitiy and wear over all.
Regarding your shear comment, that is true. Mobil 1 EP isn't more shear stable. In fact Amsoil has now followed the pack and lowered their numbes as well. Bascially all the 30wt oils are now 3.2 HT/HS. Amsoil is growing. I'm sure they are having to please the majority more and more.
Your "picking nits" here with any of these products. I give the edge to Amsoil for lower Noak voalitiy and wear over all.
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