How many people are using really old PCs on a daily?

Umm no, it's nothing like that either and a flawed analogy. 1/32nd, 10 years old and have cords showing is clearly unsafe by any standard.
So is using an OS that's not receiving security updates and hasn't in years.

The car that the tires are attached to is still perfectly serviceable, just like the hardware you are using to run Windows 7. You can put on new tires just like you can update the OS (which is free, so even less of an argument exists here).

The problem is that you don't adequately understand how unsafe the OS is, because it isn't immediately tangible for you, whereas with the tires, you can SEE the risk, so it's more apparent.
What flippant non-response? I reply to most every topic I post a question in.
And what dismissal of the validity of any of this criticism? I wrote a few posts up, "I understand W7 may be more vulnerable"
Still find it odd that other users of W7 here don't get as much flak.
I've provided you with what I feel is constructive criticism on many topics, including this one, over the past several years. In many instances it was apparent you felt justified in being cheap despite being implored by the majority of respondents to do what was generally agreed upon to be the right thing. Often, despite soliciting advice, you proceed to ignore all of it and continue to do what you were planning on doing in the first place. This is what I'm referring to.
 
So is using an OS that's not receiving security updates and hasn't in years.
I have Microsoft Security Essentials. That seems to update regularly. Also have and use C Cleaner, Maleware Bytes, etc.

The problem is that you don't adequately understand how unsafe the OS is, because it isn't immediately tangible for you, whereas with the tires, you can SEE the risk, so it's more apparent.
I guess I'm OK with that. People ride motorcycles without helmets, drive without seat belts, smoke cigarettes, all unsafe practices and they accept the risk as do I.

I've provided you with what I feel is constructive criticism on many topics, including this one, over the past several years. In many instances it was apparent you felt justified in being cheap despite being implored by the majority of respondents to do what was generally agreed upon to be the right thing. Often, despite soliciting advice, you proceed to ignore all of it and continue to do what you were planning on doing in the first place. This is what I'm referring to.
I have W10 on my laptop and don't like the layout and avoid using it. Tried some of my older programs on it and it wouldn't work. The answer to the advice I solicited for here, often had nothing to do with what OS I am using. I and maybe others do find these discussions interesting and educational so you're not wasting your breath, even if I don't follow the advice.
 
Look, I have a computer at work running Win7. I have compute at home running OS X 10.6.8(Snow Leopard), which is about the same age. I even have a few running OS X 10.4.11, which is WinXP age. I have a few running MacOS 10.14, which is about Win10 age. I’ve even mentioned Mac OS 9.2.2 in this thread, which has some similarities to Windows ME(last DOS based windows where 2000 and everything since have been NT, everything since OS 9 has been OS X/Unix) but unlike ME is actually a good OS.

I use most of these to run obsolete but useful software sometimes coupled with older hardware. I also have some because I’m a computer collector and like this stuff. Some are just for fun like my G4 “anthology” tower with 6 release versions of OS X and 5 betas. I even have a MacBook with OS X 10.4.11, which is utterly useless now on Intel hardware since continued development for older hardware(such that it is) is for 10.6

As I constantly say, I use these offline mostly or when online for very limited purposes and just accept that some things won’t work. I dropped 10.14 as a main OS when current Adobe software quit working on it and transferring files to my laptop was a nightmare. With OS 9, I rely on security through obscurity since the number of people using it online is basically noise and it can’t even execute a lot of current exploits. That’s not true of Windows 7
 
No, at least not around here. If you can go half that fast during rush hour, 3-7pm anywhere around the Capital Beltway, you're lucky.

That's not the point of the analogy :rolleyes:

Not that I had any hope of it making a difference, though. I know this is a lost cause, but I can always hope that other people can/will learn something.
 
I have Microsoft Security Essentials. That seems to update regularly. Also have and use C Cleaner, Maleware Bytes, etc.
Security Essentials is an incredibly limited piece of software and is NOT the same as Windows Defender used in Windows 10.
Example from back in the Windows 7 days:
MSEFail.jpg

Same computer scanned with ESET Endpoint AV (commercial version of NOD32):
ESETResults.jpg

I guess I'm OK with that. People ride motorcycles without helmets, drive without seat belts, smoke cigarettes, all unsafe practices and they accept the risk as do I.
And in many locations riding without a helmet or seatbelt is illegal and subject to significant penalty because it ultimately results in the rest of us footing the bill for the inevitable healthcare costs their darwinism produces.

Acknowledging that people do stupid things isn't really much in the way of a defence here 🤷‍♂️
I have W10 on my laptop and don't like the layout and avoid using it. Tried some of my older programs on it and it wouldn't work. The answer to the advice I solicited for here, often had nothing to do with what OS I am using. I and maybe others do find these discussions interesting and educational so you're not wasting your breath, even if I don't follow the advice.
There are numerous shell replacements that can make Windows 10 look and feel like 7 if you are interested. Classic Shell is one example, here's what the Windows 10 start menu looks like with it:
startmenu3.png


My experience is that there are very, VERY few programs that won't run on 10 in compatibility mode that would run on 7. I was quite impressed at how Microsoft has maintained that function.
 
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Look, I have a computer at work running Win7. I have compute at home running OS X 10.6.8(Snow Leopard), which is about the same age. I even have a few running OS X 10.4.11, which is WinXP age. I have a few running MacOS 10.14, which is about Win10 age. I’ve even mentioned Mac OS 9.2.2 in this thread, which has some similarities to Windows ME(last DOS based windows where 2000 and everything since have been NT, everything since OS 9 has been OS X/Unix) but unlike ME is actually a good OS.

I use most of these to run obsolete but useful software sometimes coupled with older hardware. I also have some because I’m a computer collector and like this stuff. Some are just for fun like my G4 “anthology” tower with 6 release versions of OS X and 5 betas. I even have a MacBook with OS X 10.4.11, which is utterly useless now on Intel hardware since continued development for older hardware(such that it is) is for 10.6

As I constantly say, I use these offline mostly or when online for very limited purposes and just accept that some things won’t work. I dropped 10.14 as a main OS when current Adobe software quit working on it and transferring files to my laptop was a nightmare. With OS 9, I rely on security through obscurity since the number of people using it online is basically noise and it can’t even execute a lot of current exploits. That’s not true of Windows 7
I'm in the same boat, though my legacy collection of equipment and OS's is nowhere near as large as yours.

On the bolded and underlined bit, again, exactly right. None of my "museum" systems connect to the internet (DOS 6.22, OS 9, WFWG 3.11...etc). They are setup for the nostalgia and history, not be DD'd. As you know, I'm running Monterey on my 5,1, which is still a "current" OS, receiving security updates. My dual boot is Windows 10.

There's a relative chasm between a legacy system collection and somebody using XP, Vista or 7 on their internet-facing DD computer.
 
I have Microsoft Security Essentials. That seems to update regularly. Also have and use C Cleaner, Maleware Bytes, etc.
If you believe that running these tools are the antidote to an unsupported OS, then I am afraid your general understanding is too far removed from "functional" to have a rational conversation.

I don't mean any disrespect in that. Not everyone should take the time and effort to develop an understanding of operating systems; they're boring and ridiculously complex. So we tend to offload the responsibilities for handling this stuff to the people who make and administer operating systems, which they do; and they support those OS's with security patches for some period of time, usually years. And then they don't. Microsoft, Apple and every halfway competent Linux distribution out there are EXTREMELY clear that your systems are rendered vulnerable when they no longer receive security patches.

Users can be as dumb as they want with their own computing; but there are a couple of ways that impacts THE REST OF US.

*****THE REST OF US*****, for heaven's sake.​

I cannot tell you all how many times I type those same words in that same order; yet there remains those who are convinced they Know Everything, or worse yet Know Enough, or worse than that Know More Than The Professionals Who Are Pleading With Them To Update. There's just no fixing that, and those people play a small-but-substantial role in buggering it up for everyone else.

1) When knuckleheads users insist on running their unsupported OS and malicious parties can use those systems to conduct DDOS, phishing and other scams, spam and the distribution of contraband data it harms the people and organizations and businesses at whom these nefarious activities are directed. Using YOUR computer. And you'll never know it.

2) It burdens everyone else with having to try to support obsolete garbage.
It burdens people who have to try to support legacy OS's in their applications.
It burdens those who are still foolish enough to try to help out Those Who Think They Know Everything when their systems slow to a crawl and misbehave "mysteriously".
In networked environments, it burdens everyone else whose data is now vulnerable as well. I cannot tell you how many organizational disasters start with Linda in Accounting clicking on an attachment, which installs an executable, which then... Well, you get it.

And for the hundreth millionth billionth time: This is NOT about malware or viruses. Those only really affect you for the most part and they can actually teach you quite a bit about the value of security and data redundancy like backups. Heck, you know how many genius hackers are working on viruses that compromise Windows 98? NONE. This is about kernel and userland vulnerabilities. It's about outdated cryptography. It's about 0-day privilege escalations.

Malicious parties want to USE your computer, not destroy it. By using an unsupported OS you are greatly increasing the opportunities for these ne'er-do-wells to get what they want.

This is all much more important for those of us with our grubby little hands on servers than it is for the home desktop user. The fact(s) that we HAVE the knowledge about how these vulnerabilities manifest and that we HAVE to be vigilant constantly to stave off malicious parties can lead us to be especially vocal when people are doing something that is very, very, very unwise. I want to help the people running unsupported OS's understand why it is important to upgrade, and I want to help minimize the impact that malicious parties' efforts have on all of us. There are those of us on this forum who have knowledge about many, many things and it is generous of them to give of that knowledge to the rest of us. Everyone has the freedom to disregard quality advice and make whatever decisions they want. But in an ever-increasingly interconnected world we are seeing small groups of people with the power to just mess everything up for everyone else.

With that said, the human who operates the operating system is far, far, far more likely to be the weak link in the security armour than an unpatched OS. Grandmas every day are losing their life savings because of email scams. One "grandparent scam" was stopped in my area very recently. The people responsible for these scams were using compromised cloud email (read: Gmail, Outlook) accounts for which they'd obtained the passwords fraudulently. These things have nothing to do with OS's; it's just relentless deceit. The world is not going to end because someone is still using Windows 7. But at some point the frustration comes with the endless stream of arguments and rationalizations from people who are challenging the validity of the advice; arguments that make it unambiguously clear that the arguer's understanding is woefully shy of "adequate".

But please, guys, please just use a supported OS. And if you really want to develop an understanding about what goes into keeping an OS safe, read some of the changelogs and CVE's for patches that come in. Windows usually has KB******* unique identifiers for issues and are easy to look up. Usually, in reasonably plain English, the patch's contributor will provide a description of what issue they're addressing.
 
This is an iMac, circa 2010, in my basement for utility use. It's got an i3 in it and I've managed to shove 8GB RAM in there. I've got another one from 2011 with an i5 in it serving as a Plex server and podcast/YouTube/Twitch player in my office.

Obviously, there is no supported Mac operating system for this thing. I had Ubuntu 22.04 in them until one of their HDD died recently. Some cheap SSD's were installed and Debian 12 (Bookworm; currently Testing, soon to be Stable in... July?) installed. Both of these things perform as fast as I need them to and are rock solid and stable.

I fully expect these machines to remain in service for the next few years. I'll probably dist-upgrade Debian to 13 in 2025!

PXL_20230404_160921848.jpg
 
My daughter is still using a recycle bin laptop with a broken screen, I threw an old 24" to it and they are happy. 4GB i5 with a 64GB SSD they can browse the web and play games with.
 
I daily use a 6yo Dell XPS laptop. I’ll continue using this for quite a while as long as it keeps going.

Before that I went through 2 HP laptops but after 5-7 yrs the screens or graphics died.

I had a Gateway 2000 computer we bought in 1996 and I used it up until about 2006 for word processing in college.

Computers will last a long time if you don’t game or do advanced things on them.
 
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