How many lights?

[Kestas]

We don't need high performing low beams. Any enhancement of low beams comes at the expense of blinding oncoming drivers. That's why high beams were invented. Low beams are so you don't blind the oncoming drivers -- high beams are for excellent lighting when there were no oncoming traffic. What's is wrong with this setup? It's worked great for as long as I've been driving since the 70s.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: LotI

The other thing that bugs me is people driving with fogs on during a clear night...stupid.

I leave my fogs on all the time because I want to be sure they will be on when I need them...I can't say I've ever been blinded by oncoming fog lights, they don't even point at oncoming cars (unless severely misaligned). To me, saying the fog lights should be off is like saying the taillights or turn signals are too bright and shouldn't be used.
I just don't get people leaving brights on for ANY length of time, I flash them on briefly when I really need them and that's it. I'd be in favor of cars not having a stalk position for constant brights to make being blinded by them much less likely, make driver hold the stalk to keep them on.


I think it depends on a few things. Some people call DRLs fog lights, but to me, fog lights are aftermarket lights installed by the vehicle owner, and usually don't shine in the eyes of oncoming drivers (unless they're seriously misaimed). I usually don't mind fog lights (unless they're misaimed), but DRLs are terrible. Almost all of them shine DIRECTLY into the eyes of oncomers, and they come from the factory that way. You'd think automakers would make sure DRLs are aimed downward so not to be blinding to oncoming drivers, AND they should turn off when the headlights are on...after all, they are called DAYTIME running lights...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
We don't need high performing low beams. Any enhancement of low beams comes at the expense of blinding oncoming drivers. That's why high beams were invented. Low beams are so you don't blind the oncoming drivers -- high beams are for excellent lighting when there were no oncoming traffic. What's is wrong with this setup? It's worked great for as long as I've been driving since the 70s.


I agree 100%, but you know today's society...they gotta have more, bigger, better of everything...

 

[PandaBear]

People pay for fashion, as you can see with illuminated 3 point star at night on relatively affordable Mercedes. LED eyebrows and circle around the high beam lights up? Yup, BMW started this and they definitely made a lot of money on that alone.

Look, if they are really doing LED just for bright enough the LED would be so small you cant tell where the light is anymore.

 

[meep]

Years ago my GF's father gave me a pair of "amber vision" sunglasses. They were remarkable for night driving. The light amber color cut the blues right out of the spectrum and the glare from oncoming traffic was reduced. With the glare reduced, definition increased.

This particular glasses was "stepped" in its tint in 3 levels from minimal tint down low to most tint up high. I've tried wearing (just to see) if my amber safety goggles would help. They were not as good. Either because my recollection is off or, I think, because it didn't have the graduated tint, which may have been useful in de-emphasizing the overhead lights and anything not on the road itself.

I'll bet they'd be even more effective with cutting glare from today's "whiter" bulbs.

-m

 

[fenixguy]

I leave my fogs on (if equipped) in every vehicle I drive. The roads where I live have horribly painted lines and fogs don't blind people anyway. I also drive with my headlights on most of the time day or night. Especially in my little cars. Pet peeve of mine are those drivers that never turn their lights on because the stupid dash is already lit up and their DRLs are on. So you have these cars going 80 mph in the dark with no tail lights.

I'd much rather spend some money on interior/cargo lighting or brighter reverse lights than more light for the front though. I've never not had enough light and if that's the case, I'm driving too fast.

 

[SHOZ]

Most fogs are, were before LEDs, to dim to be of much concern. Then people stared adding brighter fogs and it is a problem leaving them on with oncoming traffic.

I put in HIDs in the fogs and hi beams bu the fog switch is independent and I don't use them with oncoming traffic.

With the HIDs in and the fogs adjusted up as much as possible they lay out a nice 100' wide x 50' forward light pattern.

Great for out in the country driving.

 

[Smokescreen]

Leaving fogs on all the time because you don't think it causes glare to oncoming traffic....or....Putting HID's bulbs in a halogen enclosure.....LED light bars....



From: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/fog_lamps/fog_lamps.html

What Good are Fog Lamps, Really?

Many of today's vehicles have front fog lamps. What good are they? The quick and correct 2-word answer: Not much! Even good fog lamps, which are relatively rare, are of very limited use to most drivers. Fog lamps should be turned OFF almost all the time—to the extent that you forget the car has them, and the original bulbs last years and years because they're almost never used. Here are tabulations of 39 of the world's top expert vehicle lighting scientists, researchers, and engineers' assessments and measurements of three different kinds of visibility on the road at night. The assessments were made all on one night, all on the same roadways, and all with the same cars.
(more to read from the link)


Also...the answer is 4...4 lights maximum are all that are legal to be on at a time:

Lows - Y
Lows and fogs (when appropriate) - Y
Lows and highs (when appropriate) - Y

 

[jeff78]

Originally Posted By: grampi
I usually don't mind fog lights (unless they're misaimed), but DRLs are terrible. Almost all of them shine DIRECTLY into the eyes of oncomers, and they come from the factory that way. You'd think automakers would make sure DRLs are aimed downward so not to be blinding to oncoming drivers, AND they should turn off when the headlights are on...after all, they are called DAYTIME running lights...


DRL's have specific (photometric and behavioral) requirements as outlined in FMVSS 108. One of the requirements is that DRL's turn off when the headlights are switched on, since DRL's are meant for daytime conspicuity and can cause undue glare at night.

If you are seeing DRL's appear to be staying on when the headlights are turned on, it could be one of several things:

- the DRL is not in fact a real DRL but an aftermarket light not compliant with any applicable lighting regulations
- the DRL shares its function with the parking lamp, in which case the DRL 'dims down' when the headlights are turned on. The DRL effectively and legally becomes a parking lamp. Many late model cars with 'stylized' DRL's do this.
- the behavior of the factory DRL has been modified so that it is staying on instead of turning off
- what appears to be a factory DRL has been physically/electrically modified (e.g. 'angel eyes' mods) such that it is no longer compliant with the regulations

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
We don't need high performing low beams. Any enhancement of low beams comes at the expense of blinding oncoming drivers. That's why high beams were invented. Low beams are so you don't blind the oncoming drivers -- high beams are for excellent lighting when there were no oncoming traffic. What's is wrong with this setup? It's worked great for as long as I've been driving since the 70s.


It doesn't work because so many drivers leave their high beams on all the time when they drive at night!!!
I drive a lot of narrow rural roads and people blinding me with their high beams is a huge problem, and there are those who don't even respond when I flash them back to let them know what they're doing to me (most will kill their brights, thank goodness).

Contrasting to that, nobody has ever flashed me for having my fogs on...I will very occasionally get the quick double or triple flash to warn about a cop up ahead (and saw somebody get pulled over for doing that once, the police do not like that!!!). If somebody ever flashes me and I don't see a cruiser within half a mile or so, I will change my habits with fogs. I don't get flashed for high beams because I only use them for a second or two at a time when really needed and not with oncoming traffic or even when I can see headlight glow around a corner.

 

[Smokescreen]

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Contrasting to that, nobody has ever flashed me for having my fogs on...I will very occasionally get the quick double or triple flash to warn about a cop up ahead (and saw somebody get pulled over for doing that once, the police do not like that!!!). If somebody ever flashes me and I don't see a cruiser within half a mile or so, I will change my habits with fogs. I don't get flashed for high beams because I only use them for a second or two at a time when really needed and not with oncoming traffic or even when I can see headlight glow around a corner.

If you are not getting flashed....your fogs fit into this category --- > Many of today's vehicles have front fog lamps. What good are they? The quick and correct 2-word answer: Not much!

 

[Kestas]

A bit off topic, but one thing I found curious with the old 4-lamp setup is that when you switch to high beams, it is the low beam lamps that shine off in the distance, and the high beams are aimed low to fill in the lighting.

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: grampi
What's going on with all the lights on the front of vehicles these days? Apparently, the days of a pair of headlights, and a pair of corner markers (parking lights) are gone...


Have you seen the latest F250 and F350 pickups? They come factory equipped with a quad halogen low/high beam. All four headlamps are lit simultaneously to get a low beam or high beam pattern. Ford calls it Quad Dual Beam.

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: fenixguy
I leave my fogs on (if equipped) in every vehicle I drive. The roads where I live have horribly painted lines and fogs don't blind people anyway...


I have encountered many vehicles with blinding fog lamps. Most recently, it was a brodozer with bright blue halos on the headlamps and glare monster LED fog lamps.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: fenixguy
I leave my fogs on (if equipped) in every vehicle I drive. The roads where I live have horribly painted lines and fogs don't blind people anyway...


I have encountered many vehicles with blinding fog lamps. Most recently, it was a brodozer with bright blue halos on the headlamps and glare monster LED fog lamps.


I can't recall ever seeing blinding fog lights, but I'm sure it can be done aftermarket. Mine are OEM, probably fairly dim, but still very handy in dense fog...having the illuminated patch right in front of the car makes me think a bit of a blind man using a cane, not much help for trying to go fast but it helps you get there at a modest pace.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
We don't need high performing low beams. Any enhancement of low beams comes at the expense of blinding oncoming drivers. That's why high beams were invented. Low beams are so you don't blind the oncoming drivers -- high beams are for excellent lighting when there were no oncoming traffic. What's is wrong with this setup? It's worked great for as long as I've been driving since the 70s.


Drive through a residential neighborhood that is dark in a vehicle with poor low beams, and then another vehicle is approaching. I know in my Jeep and Rams, I couldn't see jack past the car, and high beams were not an option (but they sucked too).

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
Leaving fogs on all the time because you don't think it causes glare to oncoming traffic....or....Putting HID's bulbs in a halogen enclosure.....LED light bars....



From: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/fog_lamps/fog_lamps.html

What Good are Fog Lamps, Really?

Many of today's vehicles have front fog lamps. What good are they? The quick and correct 2-word answer: Not much! Even good fog lamps, which are relatively rare, are of very limited use to most drivers. Fog lamps should be turned OFF almost all the time—to the extent that you forget the car has them, and the original bulbs last years and years because they're almost never used. Here are tabulations of 39 of the world's top expert vehicle lighting scientists, researchers, and engineers' assessments and measurements of three different kinds of visibility on the road at night. The assessments were made all on one night, all on the same roadways, and all with the same cars.
(more to read from the link)


Also...the answer is 4...4 lights maximum are all that are legal to be on at a time:

Lows - Y
Lows and fogs (when appropriate) - Y
Lows and highs (when appropriate) - Y


Daniel Stern is a human being with an opinion. He is not the God of Lighting, and fails to take a lot of variables into account. But his opinion is exactly the one I would have if all I did was sell a bunch of overpriced old school bulbs.

 

[Colt45ws]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: fenixguy
I leave my fogs on (if equipped) in every vehicle I drive. The roads where I live have horribly painted lines and fogs don't blind people anyway...


I have encountered many vehicles with blinding fog lamps. Most recently, it was a brodozer with bright blue halos on the headlamps and glare monster LED fog lamps.

To find ACTUAL LED fog lamps that have a REAL fog lamp pattern is a chore and will cost money very few people are looking to spend; $300-400. Real fog lights have a sharp cutoff otherwise you get light blowback from them. Said cutoff will make them easy on the eyes to passing motorists in most cases.
Pretty much an LED lamp you buy under $100 or so is a chinese POS spraying light wantonly and will have very poor performance in actual fog conditions. They are better used as work lights or spot lights possibly with some sort of focusing.

 

[DoubleWasp]

It's not. There are plenty of sub-$100 projector beam foglamps with very effective patterns. Toss in a pair of LED bulbs, and you're off to the races.

 

[Colt45ws]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
It's not. There are plenty of sub-$100 projector beam foglamps with very effective patterns. Toss in a pair of LED bulbs, and you're off to the races.

But you have to know what you are looking for and doing in that case. Im talking about ready made LED lamps. Joe schmoe doesnt know that a good projector beam lamp with a LED bulb is good. They just are looking for the LED 'look'. actual function takes a backseat.