How many have switched to solar?

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gathermewool

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There's a lot of information online, but I'd like to hear your experiences, lessons learned (positive and regrets) and overall opinions, even if you don't own. I would especially like to hear if any of you have employed some sort of storage system - the new Tesla Powerwall looks promising, but I'm not sure I'd be willing to invest in something like this just yet.

I'm under contract and have just started researching solar options. The house I'm purchasing has a large section of south-facing roof and all appliances are electric. I will have enough savings to install it outright, though there is a state-backed organization working with lenders on home energy improvements at interest rates around 4%. I'll also look at leasing options.

The roof appears to be in good shape, but we haven't learned the age yet (awaiting that from owners). Our home inspection isn't until next weekend, too.

I know of one person personally who claims to have made out like a bandit. Based on what I remember from a conversation several years ago he said he was sorry he hadn't done it early. I believe he leases the panels, the warranty extends through the lease period; and he says he is sized to produce a surplus every month, so the electric company pays him more than he spends for service. When they evaluated his usage, his unemployed brother was living with them and he knew he was going solar, so he used more than usual for the period of of the evaluation. To be fair, he had two young daughters, and I bet they'll use more energy has they get older.
 
My mom has roof panels in vermont... grid tied, no battery. She likes it. I don't have any hard data on $ but there's a website where she tracks her energy contributions so she could figure it out.

She's also too lazy to use a clothesline.
 
The trouble with solar in northern climates is that you basically have to rely on artificial subsidies and incentives in order to be cost effective, which in the current political environment, who knows how long they will be around or guaranteed.

I strongly suggest you talk to a local installer who is familiar with all incentives offered in your area and also arrange to have a solar survey done on the home.

Also, unless you pay peak/off-peak rates and there's a big disparity there, than storing energy in a battery bank is a HUGE waste of money.

I would love to throw panels all over my roof with grid tie inverters but here in Michigan, there's barely enough sun to break even during the warranty period of the panels (artificial incentives not included). While prices have fallen a great deal, there's still a lot of what ifs. Generally, your money would be better spent increasing the efficiency of the home vs offsetting usage. Then again, I have no idea what incentives are offered in your area.
 
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Originally Posted By: eljefino
My mom has roof panels in vermont... grid tied, no battery. She likes it. I don't have any hard data on $ but there's a website where she tracks her energy contributions so she could figure it out.

She's also too lazy to use a clothesline.


Thanks for the input. There are a couple of people in my current neighborhood who have solar. Would it be rude to leave a note in their mail box asking if they would be ok contacting me to discuss? Personally, if I had solar panels and someone left me a note, I'd be all about helping them out, and I'm pretty much a hermit.

Originally Posted By: HorseThief
The trouble with solar in northern climates is that you basically have to rely on artificial subsidies and incentives in order to be cost effective, which in the current political environment, who knows how long they will be around or guaranteed.

I strongly suggest you talk to a local installer who is familiar with all incentives offered in your area and also arrange to have a solar survey done on the home.

Also, unless you pay peak/off-peak rates and there's a big disparity there, than storing energy in a battery bank is a HUGE waste of money.

I would love to throw panels all over my roof with grid tie inverters but here in Michigan, there's barely enough sun to break even during the warranty period of the panels (artificial incentives not included). While prices have fallen a great deal, there's still a lot of what ifs. Generally, your money would be better spent increasing the efficiency of the home vs offsetting usage. Then again, I have no idea what incentives are offered in your area.


My New England state is pretty green (and blue...) and offers some decent rebates and financing offers. It looks like the Federal 30% incentive (it looks like you have to subtract state subsidies, possibly) will be in effect until 2019.

My condo has dumb meters, so there's no such thing as peak and off-peak. Thanks for the reminder to check the new place and inquire about it, if it doesn't have a smart meter. I hadn't thought of that vs battery storage, either, so thanks for that.

You're spot on with your last point, as well. We've requested their electric bills for the past year +. They have owned it since it was built, so I'll ask about insulation, too. I'm not sure what was commonly done in 1980, when the house was built. The windows are also double-pane, but not new. Lots of things to figure out!

It might be that we'll wait for the next-gen panels and batter(ies) to come out and invest in a decade or so. We're planning on keeping this house forever, unless we have a couple of "whoops!" babies down the road!
 
We installed a solar system about 4 years ago and we are very happy with it. Of course, in Southern California we have plenty of sunshine.
We bought our system outright from Costco and had a local company do the installation. Our system is a grid-tie (no storage or generation if the main power is down) and we have a net-metering agreement with Edison. So far, we have not paid an electric bill at all and at the end of the year we have been receiving a small check for our excess generation.
The electric company had rules on how large the system could be and we went to the max. I guess that they don't want people generating lots of excess power.
We did receive some Fed and State incentives to purchase the system. I calculated that the system would be fully paid for in about 7 years so we are over half way there. We did spend some money to install a new roof before the solar was installed but that was going to happen anyway. This was part of our retirement plan and we have eliminated our largest monthly utility bill.
We briefly looked at the leasing option but decided that owning the system was the way to go for us, especially if we sell the house.
 
My annual spend on electricity is about $1,200. I got a solar quote recently. The payback period is longer than the life of the panels. I like it cool in my house so I keep it 70-72 in the summer. So, I have usage in excess of 2,000 kWh for about four months out of the year. For the rest of the time I'm often below 1,000 kWh (It's not terribly cold here and I have gas heat.). I'm starting to think that, instead of getting quoted on enough solar capacity to cover ALL of my electricity needs I should look to cover everything EXCEPT A/C. Power is relatively cheap here and I use about 15,000 kWh annually.
 
I used to sell solar on commercial roofs with systems sized from 50kW to 1000kW. In our Solar 101 presentation, we discussed the three requirements necessary for a successful (paid back) solar installation.

1. Insolation- this is the amount of sun you receive annually in your locale. Charts are generally available online. Most US states get enough if 2&3 are right.
2. Electricity Rates-these vary dramatically and have a direct impact on your payback calculation. SoCal is around $.25/kWh. I pay $.075 in Indiana. Guess which market works?
3. Incentives-we had the federal 30% of installed cost (one time) then every utility is different. So, you need to know what your local utility does with solar. Hopefully, they at least allow net-metering.

So, yes, people's experience will vary greatly depending on these factors. Oh, and if you're installing over a roof, keep in mind that any disassembly of the solar system to service or replace the roof is NEVER included in the payback calculations so success is dependent on the roof lasting as long as the solar system 25 yrs+.
 
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We just signed up to have solar panels put on the roof. 30 panels generating about 900kw/HR per month. No batteries, just reverse fed into the grid. We will get 2 bills, One we generate power on with a negative $ amount that is then applied to the bill we pay. They pay us about 3x as much as we spend on electricity so we will be in a credit balance each month and at the end of the year will get a cheque for outstanding credits assuming there is any when there is less sun in the winter and cloudy/overcast lower income generation days.

The main reason we did it is because our house is super old and there is no room to add insulation to the roof because of the design of the upper floors and roof clearance and we wanted a way to keep it cooler in the summer, so the panels will take the majority of the heat shading the roof with an air gap in-between thanks to the type of mounts and it will generate power at the same time.

We face East/West with quite a steep roof pitch so we will have panels generating all day long at peak efficiency.

Plus the system comes with an option to run 1x 20 amp dedicated line should it be day time and the utility power is out. So this will be nice for keeping the fridge or furnace running as needed until power is restored and it's a pure sine wave output!
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Originally Posted By: StevieC
We just signed up to have solar panels put on the roof. 30 panels generating about 900kw/HR per month. No batteries, just reverse fed into the grid. We will get 2 bills, One we generate power on with a negative $ amount that is then applied to the bill we pay. They pay us about 3x as much as we spend on electricity so we will be in a credit balance each month and at the end of the year will get a cheque for outstanding credits assuming there is any when there is less sun in the winter and cloudy/overcast lower income generation days.

The main reason we did it is because our house is super old and there is no room to add insulation to the roof because of the design of the upper floors and roof clearance and we wanted a way to keep it cooler in the summer, so the panels will take the majority of the heat shading the roof with an air gap in-between thanks to the type of mounts and it will generate power at the same time.

We face East/West with quite a steep roof pitch so we will have panels generating all day long at peak efficiency.

Plus the system comes with an option to run 1x 20 amp dedicated line should it be day time and the utility power is out. So this will be nice for keeping the fridge or furnace running as needed until power is restored and it's a pure sine wave output!
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Did you run any calculations factoring in the chance that the next provincial government may scrap the MicroFIT program? It is one of the key drivers to the skyrocketing hydro rates we've seen in the province.
 
We have a signed contract with the ESO and Ontario Government that is guaranteed for 20 years. It can't be cancelled. (Lawyer reviewed it). It would only affect those moving forward if they cancel the MicroFIT program.

And yes it is a cost to the system but the majority of what has been driving our electricity rates up is the gas plant cancellation and the aging infrastructure needing replacement like refurbishing the nuclear reactors and lines that are just really old. I did in-depth research on this and the solar project.
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Originally Posted By: StevieC
We have a signed contract with the ESO and Ontario Government that is guaranteed for 20 years. It can't be cancelled. (Lawyer reviewed it). It would only affect those moving forward if they cancel the MicroFIT program.

And yes it is a cost to the system but the majority of what has been driving our electricity rates up is the gas plant cancellation and the aging infrastructure needing replacement like refurbishing the nuclear reactors and lines that are just really old. I did in-depth research on this and the solar project.
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Uhhhh, the gas plant cancellation has had zero effect on your rates, you may need to do more research, LOL! The cost, whilst constantly bathed in the public limelight to anger the voters has been minuscule compared to the other massive expenses incurred since the GEA took effect.

Glad you reviewed it with your lawyer, Australia cancelled their version of MicroFIT and solar owners were paid 7 or 8 cents IIRC for what were previously very generous rates like what we've been paying here. The actual MicroFIT program comes to a close in the next month or so, so no new applications will be accepted at that point. However there is legitimate concern for those presently under those types of contracts that the next government, trying to reign-in the present disaster, can and may cancel them.

A lawyer from Kingston wrote the following article, you may want to give it a read: the Green Energy contracts can be cancelled

BTW, the nukes are one of the only things in this province keeping the rates DOWN. The Darlington refurbishment hasn't cost us anything (yet), and Bruce's doesn't start for another number of years. The lines that are "really old" still need to be replaced according to Hydro ONE, who are petitioning for billions right now to do that. This is because the majority of the "infrastructure" money invested by Hydro ONE in the last decade has been to connect new generation from wind, solar and gas to the grid. This is one of the primary drivers of the uptick in Hydro ONE delivery charges, as infrastructure gets rolled into that part of the bill.
 
It probably also depends on the area and what your energy bills are each month.

I have a coworker with solar and he told me last summer his electric bill was $40 ($300+ in Phoenix for electricity is common). He pays $100 a month for the panels for 20 years with a full warranty. Then he can extend it for 5 more years and keep the panels. He's an old guy so it works for him, solar panel payment is less than any electric bill ever in Phoenix.
 
OVERKILL

How is $1 Billion wasted and then another billion afterward have no bearing?

It is all cost of aging infrastructure line replacement and Nuke refurbishment that is driving most of the costs. Remember the rolling brownouts we had in the 1990's thanks to Mike Harris? I do, I lost lots of equipment and learned the value of APC backup units during that time thanks to that [CENSORED][CENSORED][CENSORED][CENSORED][CENSORED][CENSORED][CENSORED][CENSORED][CENSORED][CENSORED]

Then you get the McGuilty and the witch Wynne governments and well you take a forest fire and poor heaploads of gasoline on it and well that's the wonderful mess we are in paying the highest rates in North America when 60% of our energy comes from Hydro Electric.
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I heard about the MicroFit program being cancelled and it's why I took my agreements to a lawyer to make sure I wasn't missing anything and then having to end up on the hook and not getting return on my investments.

Besides. with as terrible as a candidate as Patrick Brown is we will most likely end up either Liberal again (God I hope not) or NDP (even worse).
 
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Originally Posted By: StevieC
How is $1 Billion wasted and then another billion afterward have no bearing?


Because it isn't the root of the problem, which has incurred expenses of tens of billions of dollars which we are covering every month via the contracts signed under McGuinty and Wynne.

Originally Posted By: StevieC
It is all cost of aging infrastructure line replacement and Nuke refurbishment that is driving most of the costs. Remember the rolling brownouts we had in the 1990's thanks to Mike Harris? I do, I lost lots of equipment and learned the value of APC backup units during that time thanks to that [CENSORED][CENSORED][CENSORED][CENSORED][CENSORED][CENSORED][CENSORED][CENSORED][CENSORED][CENSORED]


Again, the nuclear refurbishment JUST STARTED, we have not even begun to pay for it yet. Heck, we don't even know what it will cost yet! OPG gets paid $0.065/kWh for Darlington/Pickering, Bruce gets $0.066/kWh. Neither of those are significant in where our rates sit presently, they are in fact the 2nd lowest rates paid to any generator in the market.

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Then you get the McGuilty and the witch Wynne governments and well you take a forest fire and poor heaploads of gasoline on it and well that's the wonderful mess we are in paying the highest rates in North America when 60% of our energy comes from Hydro Electric.
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25% of our electricity comes from hydro-electric, 60% of it comes from Nuclear.

Originally Posted By: StevieC
I heard about the MicroFit program being cancelled and it's why I took my agreements to a lawyer to make sure I wasn't missing anything and then having to end up on the hook and not getting return on my investments.

Besides. with as terrible as a candidate as Patrick Brown is we will most likely end up either Liberal again (God I hope not) or NDP (even worse).


If we end up with the NDP, they actually have a very good hydro plan (I suggest giving it a read, it surprised the socks off of me). I hope Brown's is even remotely close to being as good. Anything is better than the gong show the Liberals have been playing with.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
:Mumbles: Darned no good Canadians gonna get my thread locked...


OK, I'll stop now
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
:Mumbles: Darned no good Canadians gonna get my thread locked...


OK, I'll stop now
grin.gif



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Makes no sense in my 1100 sq foot house @ 7.x cents per KWH.

Lots of my friends in NY are going to solar because they are cashing in on Federal and State rebates, making it worthwhile.

Unless the government is subsidizing it, still does not make sense.
 
I went to the gub site when I was looking at a new HVAC hoping to find incentives for higher SEER …
Pfftt … I’d have been better off organizing a hydrogen project …
 
Originally Posted By: JustinH
Makes no sense in my 1100 sq foot house @ 7.x cents per KWH.

Lots of my friends in NY are going to solar because they are cashing in on Federal and State rebates, making it worthwhile.

Unless the government is subsidizing it, still does not make sense.


Even with the subsidy it still didn't make sense for me. It will keep coming down in price. At some point it'll get there.
 
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