How long for oil to turn into sludge?

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When exactly does the oil start sludging? Must of us that run convention oil run it 3K to 5k miles. My pontiac recommends 7.5K mile oil changes. Ive seen brand new cars with 25K on the clock that never had an OC that are completely sludged. So what is the sweet spot?
 
Depends on the oil, the engine, oil temperature, quantity of oil in the system, temperature of various engine components, etc...

There is no specific "when."
 
I ride in a LSx powered commuter van that got 20k miles on cheapo oil (probably syn blend bulk), all highway, and it lived through it.
 
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
Rand.. http://ask.metafilter.com/263242/Accidentally-drove-20000-miles-without-changing-the-oil-Now-what


So have you seen one, or read about one? Two different things. I believe the fella in the link you posted, neglected at least two oil changes at a critical time for the engine-- when it was breaking in and when wear metals were abundant.

If that neglect happened at 25k (presuming one or two previous oil changes after initial fill) there would likely be a different outcome.

Oil "sludging" is due to many things. Oil change interval takes a back seat to engine condition, design, usage, and many other things. Just change the oil using the simple interval/instructions provided by the manufacturer and you'll be fine. There are some examples of sludge prone engines, but problems are usually identified by the mfg and some corrective action taken.
 
When the oil start to get thicker, it is already starting to sludge out the engine. Most sludge cones from the dried black goo contaminated oil
 
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Wont using synthetics minimise the risk of this happening? Big sludgers iv seen were majority of the time run on conventional oils.
 
Originally Posted By: slybunda
Wont using synthetics minimise the risk of this happening? Big sludgers iv seen were majority of the time run on conventional oils.


Yes the synthetic base oils are more resistant to oxidation and they also usually contain a more generous dosage of additives as well so that's why they can last longer without slugging.

When you look at a used oil analysis, the oil will start to thicken as the TBN drops and TAN rises. Usually a couple of ticks thicker isn't a condemnation to the lubricant entirely but it's not good sign that you are approaching its useful life and a safe indicator to change.
 
How long for a oil to turn into sludge? The answer is far longer than you might think.

First off, sludge formation is as much a 'fuel thing' as it is an oil thing. All of the sludge tests that industry has used over the years to simulate sludge formation require a prolonged very cold start-up phase to ensure a lot of unburnt fuel gets into the oil. If you don't get fuel related nasties into the oil, you won't form sludge. And this is where things get messy. The industry has a fundamental problem in creating standardised sludge tests because everyday gasolines are 'too good'. You have to get someone like Haltermann to create a 'special' test fuel which contains stuff that 'promotes' sludge (I'm guessing something like stream cracked naphtha or raw coker naphtha) and some of these fuel are poor to the point of being ridiculous! Run the same test on typical pump quality fuel (full to the gunnels with antioxidant and ashless) and you just won't get sludge.

If you put aside the 'fuel thing', all oils WILL sludge eventually but it will take a lot, lot longer. All oils will oxidise if you expose them long enough to the effects of heat and blow-by. Base oils containing no additives oxidise quickest. Most oil additives, one way or another, mitigate against sludge formation. Of the different base oil types, very low VI Group I base oils have the greatest propensity to oxidise (because they contain the most aromatics). High VI Group Is (which you find in Europe) are better. Group II base oil (the commonest form of crankcase base oil in the US and Asia) are Group Is which have been catalytically hydrogenated and are very oxidatively stable. Synthetics are better still.

IMO, the chances of any US oil creating sludge in a 3k to 5k window are remote to the point of being non-existant.
 
Originally Posted By: slybunda
hmm certain vw engines are known sludgers. if sludge occurs is it covered in warranty?


Yeah, the old VAG 1.8 Turbos had problems but (a) these go back as far a 1997 when Group I's were far more the norm than they are today (b) it wasn't so much the engine oxidising the oil as the badly designed turbo and (c) didn't this engine have tiny sump capacity relative to the overall size of the engine? Things have changed for the better since those days.
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Originally Posted By: slybunda
hmm certain vw engines are known sludgers. if sludge occurs is it covered in warranty?


Yeah, the old VAG 1.8 Turbos had problems but (a) these go back as far a 1997 when Group I's were far more the norm than they are today (b) it wasn't so much the engine oxidising the oil as the badly designed turbo and (c) didn't this engine have tiny sump capacity relative to the overall size of the engine? Things have changed for the better since those days.

IIRC, VW's solution was a switch to synthetic oil. For Toyota/Lexus, it was a change in OCI from 7500 to 5000 miles.
 
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