How do you feel about debt?

Disagree, if mortgage rates go up to 4% or more the people do not eat the higher rate the seller of the property eats the higher rate. The public makes the same payment, the public can only afford a certain payment the rest always comes from the seller.
When it comes to purchasing property with debt either the seller is getting an increase in price or the seller is getting a decrease in price.
Either the bank is earning more in interest or either the bank is earning less in interest. The buyer is making the same payment.
 
Disagree, if mortgage rates go up to 4% or more the people do not eat the higher rate the seller of the property eats the higher rate. The public makes the same payment, the public can only afford a certain payment the rest always comes from the seller.
When it comes to purchasing property with debt either the seller is getting an increase in price or the seller is getting a decrease in price.
Either the bank is earning more in interest or either the bank is earning less in interest. The buyer is making the same payment.
I guess it depends on the area somewhat. Utah seems to have an infinite money glitch in place and still sells things no matter what price. We are about $500k for an average nothing special house now. Assuming 20% down you might borrow 400k @ 2.85% today for a $1654 payment. 4% takes you to $1909. Not that big of a change and still under rent cost. That payment at 4% is doable for two full time chik fil a employees are todays wages.

Go to 5% and now your at $2147 and these numbers are of course without the taxes and insurance included, lets say $300 for that. I think that is the pain point, 5%.
 
It depends on the area totally. Last week a 1300 sq ft house, built in 1961, on a small lot, nothing fancy at all, in Sunnyvale, CA, made the news.
The asking price was $1.8M. It sold immeadiately for $820K more... Thanks Apple Spaceship!

831 Flin
Thats cash fueled frenzy buying right there. Not getting a 80% LTV Jumbo at that valuation i'm sure.

People are paying cash in full or large down payments, they have good credit, they want it and they will pay for it!
 
It depends on the area totally. Last week a 1300 sq ft house, built in 1961, on a small lot, nothing fancy at all, in Sunnyvale, CA, made the news.
The asking price was $1.8M. It sold immeadiately for $820K more... Thanks Apple Spaceship!

831 Flin
The San Francisco Bay area has always been a real estate hot spot.
 
It's all supply and demand.
During the late 70s and early 80s, interest rates were skyrocketing. In the areas I was looking for and bought houses (military moves every 1.5 to 4 years), the price of them went up along with the interest rates.
I wouldn't count on the price of houses dropping as interest rates go up. It will happen in some areas where supply outpaces demand, but it won't be nationwide. And with inflation, the cost of new construction will be increasing.
In Las Vegas now, the price of existing houses has gone up an unreasonable amount over the last year. It has only been outpaced by the price of new construction.
 
People expecting student debt to automatically be forgiven and somehow student debt will be paid off by US taxpayer amaze/disgust me. Some (few ok) had ZERO intention of paying it back, some figured it would be lightened, some figured a little in due time and $100,000 poof paid off - I don't know but many BA's = no job or only $50K year.. There are lots of negatives here (accelerated college costs, majors, gpa standards, predatory, etc) , so don't ask me how I feel about student debt, because I might go on............

Ahem, and sorry. Carry on.........

I had a 28 year old female tell me the Gov should pay off all student loans.

Me: Are you willing to pay $500 extra each paycheck in taxes to help with this debt ?
Her: Heck no.
Me: Stop talking silly crap.


It depends on the area totally. Last week a 1300 sq ft house, built in 1961, on a small lot, nothing fancy at all, in Sunnyvale, CA, made the news.
The asking price was $1.8M. It sold immeadiately for $820K more... Thanks Apple Spaceship!

831 Flin

Yep. It’s crazy but if people are willing to pay the price for property then that’s great for the seller.
 
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To further explain my post above in this thread. Low interest rates = High Home Prices. High Interest Rates = Low Home Prices
We dont need to pick this apart, this is the general rule. Home prices are ONLY what the public can afford to pay in a monthly payment. Either the seller gets the higher price or the bank gets the higher interest rate, generally speaking on a nationwide basis for average Americans whom finance their home.
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Respectfully, the first graph at the macro level shows the opposite of your theory, especially in the mid '77 through '96 time frame. Home prices claimed steadily throughout this period independent of interest rates according to the graph. Around '99 to '00, a short spike in interest rates was accompanied with the start of a spike in prices.
The second chart at the micro level appears to support your theory in '94 and '99, but not at other points. The second chart doesn't show the real estate collapse starting in '07 (the first chart does) so I'm not sure why the data is different.
There is a relatively new trend not shown in the past data that may change things to support your theory. Huge levels of student debt may force a tighter correlation between reduced housing prices and higher interest rates.
 
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The rule of thumb so to speak of what should happen: 1% move in rates impacts home prices 10%. it certainly does not always happen especially in short term, shortage, or other unusual events. If we had a balanced supply/demand/employment economy the rule would take effect.

However, we do not have any shred of balance right now. You could be someone who put $10k into Ethereum coins in early 2020 and suddenly can pay cash for a house. You don't care what the interest rate is only what you want matters. The asset bubble has a very large pool of people very well funded.

Another imbalance is in hourly wages. You can have a successful restaurant worker making as much per hour as a starting police officer or teacher. Tremendous demand for services, construction, trades, have really inflated a lot of pay beyond where it naturally would have grown to. If they can buy it, they will.
 
Way too many people are living way over there means...have to have the latest Ipad or the newest car or a bunch of other stuff...and then hope the government will bail them out....
First off: ipad and car, while expensive, is NOTHING, compare to rent or mortgage, and student loans. People usually don't go bankrupt over one new iPad every 3 years or a new car every 6 years, but they can easily go bankrupt making bad investment with debt (mortgage, student loans).

The biggest problem with today's income vs debt is that the assumption when people borrow and the return of what they can get down the road is mismatched. For example: they were told going to Duke or Columbia to get a master in film making is a good investment, but when they graduated with a 150k student loan they found jobs that are only 5k a year better than their coworkers going to a state school with only 15k in student loan (like Steven Spielberg from Cal State Long Beach).

The other problem is people falsely believe that buying a home is always better than paying someone else rent. In my area just the insurance, interest (assume 20% down) and property tax alone on the same house can be a $13k a month payment vs a $8k rent. If you factor in the 20% down payment's opportunity cost in the S&P 500 it would probably end up being $15k a month vs 8k rent. I "sometime" regret buying a 1M condo in the ideal school district to let my inlaw live in it so my daughters can use that school district. We know what we sign up for but still, it is not the best financial descision.

Those who do it to "get into the real estate" because they were told by Rich Dad Poor Dad that they shouldn't pay other people's mortgage, were the one to get screwed when the market go down and they lose everything and their credit score. Meanwhile the "agents", or in this case the people who make money helping your get into real estate, making a cut on books and seminar and support services like management and financing, never loses the money the investors do.

We picked up 3 houses off short sales and foreclosure in 2010, at the then "market" price, off 50% from the peak price. We were lucky we didn't buy anything during the peak for investment (I did buy my own home in 06 so that was some lost too, like 20% from the peak to bottom, but still it is ok), otherwise we would be screwed.


Regarding to other debt: I once put my paid for new car to the credit union to get a 1.5% loan. The lady at the counter ask me why I am doing that, I told her 1.5% is way lower than my mortgage so I'm going to leverage that to lower my mortgage. I also decline all gap insurance and told her I'll just ride it out, it is just financial engineering to me anyways. She probably haven't seen people play with debt like that.
 
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Yeah, you are in debt, if you don’t pay the mortgage, the bank will sell that million dollar home and give you whatever is left over if anything.
Also your $300,000 debt/mortgage is cash that is owed.
The home you claim is worth a million is an unrealized gain for what you say it’s worth until it is sold.

Just playing devils advocate, you are in debt, you do not own that home, the bank owns the home until the day you pay the bank back the money that they loaned you to buy it.
If you don’t pay them they will foreclose, sell what you thought was the house that you owned, throw you and your family out in the street and court will give you any left over money after your debt to the bank is paid.
A small adjustment to your claim:

You borrowed a fixed amount from the lender, with a term that you agreed upon (whether it is fixed 30, 15, 10 years or ARM 3,5,7 years). The market price of the asset you borrow for (house, but can also be a car or other things) can fluctuate. Home typically has a pretty stable appreciation over long term (10+ years) unless the local job market collapse (i.e. a steel mill in a mill town close down). This is the reason why bank does not like to lend 100% to the asset price.

Yes, things could happen and his house can suddenly be in a bad market that he loses his job and cannot afford to sell it for what is owe (because all of a sudden 95% of the houses are on sale at the same time), but this all depends on how much he borrow and how bad the situation is. There are many things in life are really a gamble, owning a house is a gamble, renting a house while you are working is a gamble (your income can go away and your rent goes up), so you really just have to make some common sense bet in life.
 
I have a truck account going so it’s supposed to be interest free. The credit accounts have interest attached. At least that’s what they say. And thank you for the advice. I will raise it eventually. I like just paying for everything up front but that can’t always happen. If Snap-on shows up today like he is supposed too I’m going to pay him $400 trying to get it down and eventually to nothing again.
Interest free is a fallacyj. He just charged you all the interest ahead of time and sell you the tool at a higher price (than say a competitor, or what the true cost of doing business is if he is selling you at cash price).

The same goes for 0% financing in car, most of the time cash price would have a different incentive than 0% financing, that difference is the true "interest" of the loan.
 
It depends on the area totally. Last week a 1300 sq ft house, built in 1961, on a small lot, nothing fancy at all, in Sunnyvale, CA, made the news.
The asking price was $1.8M. It sold immeadiately for $820K more... Thanks Apple Spaceship!

831 Flin
Apple is no longer the top payer. The real boost to the home affordability in the crowd is Facebook and Amazon crowd.
 
The San Francisco Bay area has always been a real estate hot spot.
I "personally" speculate some area has topped off. Last month I read Cupertino is starting to shut down school due to low enrollment. Basically top income earning cannot afford to buy the homes off the empty nesters.

Some of those spread into nearby area and make them more expensive, I have a feeling the locals have a hard time going above 3M regardless of their income. 2.8M seems to be the max, and 800K seems to be the min, in the "area".

With work from home many are moving to a cheaper area (say from 2.8M to 1.2M or 1.5M to 500K) and take a 20-30% paycut.

Until the big one hits.

Construction of those 2.5M houses are probably 800K, and even a big one hit the repair cost may only be about 300K out of that 800K in most area, big freaking deal.
 
First off: ipad and car, while expensive, is NOTHING, compare to rent or mortgage, and student loans. People usually don't go bankrupt over one new iPad every 3 years or a new car every 6 years, but they can easily go bankrupt making bad investment with debt (mortgage, student loans).

The biggest problem with today's income vs debt is that the assumption when people borrow and the return of what they can get down the road is mismatched. For example: they were told going to Duke or Columbia to get a master in film making is a good investment, but when they graduated with a 150k student loan they found jobs that are only 5k a year better than their coworkers going to a state school with only 15k in student loan (like Steven Spielberg from Cal State Long Beach).

The other problem is people falsely believe that buying a home is always better than paying someone else rent. In my area just the insurance, interest (assume 20% down) and property tax alone on the same house can be a $13k a month payment vs a $8k rent. If you factor in the 20% down payment's opportunity cost in the S&P 500 it would probably end up being $15k a month vs 8k rent. I "sometime" regret buying a 1M condo in the ideal school district to let my inlaw live in it so my daughters can use that school district. We know what we sign up for but still, it is not the best financial descision.

Those who do it to "get into the real estate" because they were told by Rich Dad Poor Dad that they shouldn't pay other people's mortgage, were the one to get screwed when the market go down and they lose everything and their credit score. Meanwhile the "agents", or in this case the people who make money helping your get into real estate, making a cut on books and seminar and support services like management and financing, never loses the money the investors do.

We picked up 3 houses off short sales and foreclosure in 2010, at the then "market" price, off 50% from the peak price. We were lucky we didn't buy anything during the peak for investment (I did buy my own home in 06 so that was some lost too, like 20% from the peak to bottom, but still it is ok), otherwise we would be screwed.


Regarding to other debt: I once put my paid for new car to the credit union to get a 1.5% loan. The lady at the counter ask me why I am doing that, I told her 1.5% is way lower than my mortgage so I'm going to leverage that to lower my mortgage. I also decline all gap insurance and told her I'll just ride it out, it is just financial engineering to me anyways. She probably haven't seen people play with debt like that.
I respect your post but will stick to what I posted...A lot of people are just not smart with there money...Have to have the latest everything in life instead of saving...Now I know that is not all but I bet it is quite a few...
 
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