How do really cheap 5W-30 dino's meet ILSAC GF-4?

addyguy · Nov 29, 2006

It has been posted here that in order to meet the ILSAC GF-4 spec, a mineral 5w30 would have to have some degree of group II+, III, or even IV to meet the spec, it couldn't do it with just II. How do really cheap 5w30's that meet this spec do it?

The main one I am thinking of is Canadian Wal-Mart Tech 2000 5w30, which does claim to meet this spec, and is know to be made from re-refined group II oil. Would Safety Kleen further process some oil to produce small quantities of group II+ or III to do this, or would they blend in someone else's?

I can understand if oils like Pennzoil or Valvoline do this, as they charge $3.00 - $4.00/litre here. But at $1.99/litre, how does Safety Kleen do it?

Canadian Tire has avoided that entirely; there $1.99 oil, Autolab, only meets API SL - it doesn't even meet GF-3!

badtlc · Nov 29, 2006

Dont worry about it. Be glad people can make API SM quality oils for cheap. You know if is SM rated, it is not a bad oil.

Marshalus · Nov 29, 2006

Quote:

Dont worry about it. Be glad people can make API SM quality oils for cheap. You know if is SM rated, it is not a bad oil.

That would kind of defeat the purpose of this site to "not worry about it." If we didn't worry about oil, we'd all just be looking at porn or something... not browsing BITOG

addyguy · Nov 29, 2006

I'm not 'worried about it' - I'm curious. Like Mashalus said, isn't that why we're all here?

Drew99GT · Nov 29, 2006

I am looking at porn too...............tabbed browsing............just kidding!

m2200b · Nov 29, 2006

If Chevron can meet it and sell through Kragen at 60 cents US gt its SM Supreme, there must be pretty fat refining , packaging and retailmargins. Your gallon of gas is just over $2 retail.

JAG · Nov 29, 2006

I'd say it goes to show that GF-4 (and even more so for API SM) isn't that difficult of a spec to meet. The oils are tortured in the tests but the acceptable limits are not set very high. Automakers and engine makers know this so they have developed oil specs above and beyond what GF-4 requires when there is a need for a better oil.

Ugly3 · Nov 29, 2006

The main one I am thinking of is Canadian Wal-Mart Tech 2000 5w30, which does claim to meet this spec, and is know to be made from re-refined group II oil. Would Safety Kleen further process some oil to produce small quantities of group II+ or III to do this, or would they blend in someone else's?

What makes you think that re-refined oil is used?

addyguy · Nov 30, 2006

It is well known that Safety Kleen, which makes the Tech 2000 Canadian oil, makes this oil from re-refined waste oil...it has been discussed on here before......

427Z06 · Nov 30, 2006

Quote:

The main one I am thinking of is Canadian Wal-Mart Tech 2000 5w30, which does claim to meet this spec, and is know to be made from re-refined group II oil. Would Safety Kleen further process some oil to produce small quantities of group II+ or III to do this, or would they blend in someone else's?

The blenders would simply blend in some Group II+ or better to make SM/GF-4 5w30.

http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/UsedOil/Rerefined/Distributors.htm

The low price goes to show how little it actually costs to make a finished product in quantity if a blender/marketeer decides to just meet the spec. The rest is profit for everyone in the sales chain. Add some fancy bottles and labels using a well recognized brand name, some slick TV advertising, and voila...instant profits!

addyguy · Nov 30, 2006

I'll direct you, 427Z06, to the section on re-refined oils:

http://www.safety-kleen.com/skcda/views/...hannel=e748b71d

If the link doesn't work:

Oil Re-Refining: Today's problem of controlling waste will be the legacy we leave to the next and subsequent generations. Steel, paper, plastics and used oil are among the most widely recycled products. Each year Safety-Kleen, collects millions of gallons of used oil and transports this valuable, reusable resource to its two North American refineries. Re-refining motor oil reduces the need to tap limited virgin crude resources and allows environmentally conscious motorists the opportunity to "close the loop" by recycling used motor oil and purchase re-refined oil. Safety-Kleen's modern re-refining processes turn used motor oil to a like-new condition by removing dirt and contaminants before blending sophisticated lubricating additives to protect engines.

427Z06 · Nov 30, 2006

Quote:

I'd say it goes to show that GF-4 (and even more so for API SM) isn't that difficult of a spec to meet. The oils are tortured in the tests but the acceptable limits are not set very high. Automakers and engine makers know this so they have developed oil specs above and beyond what GF-4 requires when there is a need for a better oil.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that API SM/GF-4 is easy to meet if you consider that they try to make it with the lowest cost materials possible and then try to have it meet a wide variety of operating conditions.

Can much better oil be made? Sure...if your willing to pay the price. Is better oil needed for 97% of the general public? Probably not.

427Z06 · Nov 30, 2006

Quote:

I'll direct you, 427Z06, to the section on re-refined oils:

And your point is?

sxg6 · Nov 30, 2006

All i get from the safety-kleen web site is that they re-refine oil. Not to be confused with blending motor oil.

*Reading material on re-refining since we've sort of drifted onto that topic.
http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/usedoil/Rerefined/
And after reading some of that link i just posted.. They say safety-kleen is a blender.. I don't know what to think

ewetho · Nov 30, 2006

SM/GF-4 spec is tougher to meet than the old stuff and mandated a move to Group II with additive packs going up into GPIII. So we get better oil. This also included a slight price increase which we pay for. By todays standard we are getting basically a Semi-Synthetic oil which is why Conoco-Phillips killed off their conventional line and just advertise Semi-Syn. We are being forced to use Semi-Syn to meet emissions and proper engine lube requirements.

Not a bad thing, just enjoy.

Also means that all those GPIII Synthetics are now closer than ever to regular oil and thus their performance gap is getting smaller and thus so is the price premium they can command. This is also why people are debating are synthetics really worth it or not.

Ray H · Nov 30, 2006

Quote:

I'll direct you, 427Z06, to the section on re-refined oils:

http://www.safety-kleen.com/skcda/views/...hannel=e748b71d

Further elucidation of Safety-Kleen's "America's Choice" brand fully formulated, packaged motor oils using 100% re-refined base oils can be found at:

http://www.ac-rerefined.com/AC_Passenger_Car_Motor_Oilsb_SM.pdf

Ray H · Nov 30, 2006

Quote:

By todays standard we are getting basically a Semi-Synthetic oil ... and thus their performance gap is getting smaller and thus so is the price premium they can command.

Yep - and it'll only get even better when the next API service desgnation (SN) oils are released in a couple more years.

rpn453 · Nov 30, 2006

When you don't have to pay for television and NASCAR, the expenses are much lower!

Is it really that much harder to re-refine oil than to refine crude oil out of the ground?

bluesubie · Nov 30, 2006

Change it every 3,750 miles and you won't have anything to worry about. The only way to really know is to run it for about 3,500 miles and do a used oil analysis.

-Dennis

bluesubie · Nov 30, 2006

Quote:

Change it every 3,750 miles and you won't have anything to worry about. The only way to really know is to run it for about 3,500 miles and do a used oil analysis.

-Dennis

3,750? Wait, I thought I was still on the subaruforester board.

How do really cheap 5W-30 dino's meet ILSAC GF-4?

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