How daft am I? New Lexus versus old Jag

[rslifkin]

The AJ6 is certainly a great engine. The 3.6 in my grandmother's 88 runs beautifully.

Honestly, I don't see a build quality problem with the pre-Ford XJ40s. Using that same 88 as an example, the only issues it's ever had are that the trip computer display on the dash only works about 1/4 of the time (probably just a bad connection, never bothered trying to fix it), the actual unit still tracks data and such just fine though. The ABS hasn't worked for as long as I can remember, but the brakes are fine (pedal is a bit stiff, but not too bad).

Other than that, it's been a flawless car reliability-wise (hasn't been a DD since the early 90s). Still averages 17 mpg in mixed driving, and probably in the high 20s on the highway (88s still had the tall rear end gears, 1st year with the OD transmission). It has great A/C too

Ford certainly brought some of the British build quality out of the equation though.

 

[moving2]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
So let me see if I understand.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure you don't.

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit

You have a 1 year old "look at me, I'm pretending to be rich" car on which you can't afford the $800/month payments. You want to trade it for a 17 year old "look at me, I'm trying to be cool" car that's noted for being unreliable.

Your excuse is that you've gotten used to "power and convertibles", when the reality is you're using vehicles to try to boost your low self esteem and shallow self image, correct?

My advice would be to bail out from under the Lexus, purchase something cheap, boring and reliable, and then invest some of the savings in a therapist. You need serious emotional help, and you're trying to use a car as a crutch for emotional issues.

To top it off you were almost completely out of debt, but by your own account you went deeply into debt again for ego boosting purchases? Doesn't that behavior strike you as a bit bizarre?

No amount of car buying or trading will fix what's wrong. You need serious emotional help.


Pop_Rivit- this is BITOG- this forum is full of automotive ENTHUSIASTS- not just refrigerator / other appliance owners. Most people here have a PASSION for cars- it's pretty obvious that you have a passion for ridiculous armchair-pop-psychology instead. Tip: stick to your day job. I'm pretty sure the OP didn't ask for your laughable psychoanalysis, anyway.

Let me speak your language: considering that you don't know the OP from Adam, and considering how quickly you assumed all sorts of psychobabble from a single posting on a message forum, I think you are projecting your own serious emotional issues onto the OP. Take heed: no amount of posting faux-psychoanalysis or denial will fix what's wrong. You need serious emotional help. Please do yourself a favor: turn off the Oprah, put down the Cosmo and Psychology Today, look in the mirror, and then tell your therapist all about it, NOT us BITOG members, because we are here to talk about cars, not the obvious emotional issues you are projecting onto innocent posters. Have a nice day!

 

[UNC017]

You guys are no fun AT ALL.

Cars are more than transportation appliances! Go for the Jag! Ditch the toaster!

>

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit

No amount of car buying or trading will fix what's wrong. You need serious emotional help.


In the immortal words of a Monty Python skit, 'You're a looney!!'

Do you play golf? Do you have a audio equipment more complex than a $40 stereo from Target? Do you have computer equipment more complex than something off-the-shelf from Best Buy? Do you garden? Do woodworking? Would you recommend a therapist for anyone with the above hobbies?

Hobbies and diversions come in many forms. Wanting an interesting, dare I say quirky, car is no different and no less healthy than any of those other hobbies. Heck, the money I don't spend in greens fees alone makes my 7-car ownership about equally affordable to being a regular golfer.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Using that same 88 as an example, the only issues it's ever had are that the trip computer display on the dash only works about 1/4 of the time


Intermittent or total failure of the digital half of the instrument pack is invariably caused by cracked solder joints on the transformer component of the dc-dc converter in the instrument pack itself. Fix is to remove the instrument panel, pull the pack, and resolder the component. Because the part is large, and solder is brittle, it will crack again. I got to where I could do this in thirty minutes.


Originally Posted By: rslifkin
The ABS hasn't worked for as long as I can remember


If the ABS warning illuminates from startup and never goes out, the failure is typically broken solder joints in the ABS over voltage protection relay. This is the tallest relay on the left side of the trunk. A new relay is $48.00, so it is best to just disassemble and resolder the old relay. If the ABS passes the static test routine, but fails the dynamic test, the usual cause is brake snarf in one or more wheel speed sensors. Fix is to remove and clean.

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
but the brakes are fine (pedal is a bit stiff, but not too bad)


The Xj40 used a hydraulic accumulator in the brake system so that full braking power was retained for thirty to forty pedal cycles in the event of engine power loss. A hard pedal is likely that the accumulator bulb has lost its charge. These are a wear item and used to be a hundred bucks or so.

You can fix all of these items and look like a hero to your grandmother for practically nothing. They are all well documented in the online Xj40 handbook at jag-lovers.

Heaven only knows how much additional damage a "specialist" would cause in fixing these easily repaired items.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
People usually reveal how they feel about something with the word choice they use, whether they intend to or not.

When it gets down to it, all of our cars are appliances in that they are machines designed to make our lives easier.


To a degree. But I think there are certain absolutes when it comes to determining if a car meets the definition of "appliance" or not. My Jeeps are appliances (which I LOVE, by the way- no one ever said that you can't LIKE a car that's a de-facto transportation appliance.) But my '69 Coronet R/T is hardly an appliance. Wasn't really an appliance when it was brand new- the appliance version would have been a slant-six or 318-powered Coronet 440 model. Would you call a Viper or ZR-1 an appliance?

Quote:
Some like to use the "appliance" label on cars they don't like; I guess it makes them feel better or something.


I'm probably guilty as charged in many cases. But... see "my Jeeps..." above. Definitely appliances.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
no one ever said that you can't LIKE a car that's a de-facto transportation appliance.


It's very often implied with the "ditch the toaster, buy something FUN" comments. I agree with you completely that "appliances" can be very enjoyable to own. As you certainly know, there's so much more to ownership satisfaction than horsepower or skidpad numbers.

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Would you call a Viper or ZR-1 an appliance?


Yes I would, by the way. From Merriam-Webster:

Appliance: an instrument or device designed for a particular use or function.

In the case of a Viper, it's most certainly a device designed for a particular use or function. In the case of a Sebring, it's most certainly a device designed for a particular use or function. In the case of a Wrangler, it's most certainly a device designed for a particular use or function.

I don't like the "slang" use of the term "appliance" when used in a derogatory way to put a certain car down or somehow qualify someone's vehicle as "boring". It can really only be taken in a negative way.

 

[javacontour]

Appliance doesn't have to be a car you don't like.

To me, the term implies a car that doesn't stir your passions. You can like the car because it just works. But it's unlikely that you'll LOVE the car with any passion.

I liked my Geo Prizm for it's appliance like qualities. It just worked, with a minimum of fuss. It wasn't a passionate affair. It was a satisfactory arrangement.

To continue the metaphor, it was an arranged marriage, compared to other cars which might be more akin to a torrid romance.

Since you can have more than one car, why not have one of each? Have a toy that stirs your passion, AND have an appliance car to drive when it just has to work.

Driving on base is not where someone can exercise their automotive passions anyway, the MP/SP folks tend to frown on that.

Weekend trips away from the base, follow your automotive heart!

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Appliance doesn't have to be a car you don't like.

To me, the term implies a car that doesn't stir your passions. You can like the car because it just works.


You said what I meant but didn't articulate nearly as well. I like that my Jeeps just flat work without complaint. I like that it cost me $25 to fix when my daughter hit a concrete wall instead of the $2k the poor guy with the Pilot in another thread is looking at after a similar mishap. But it just doesn't make me grin like pushing the skinny pedal on my R/T does.

On the other hand, I don't want to take the R/T to work on days when there's a risk of hail. I don't want to take it on a day when being late would be a huge problem. I don't want to take it on a day when I might have to make a bunch of unexpected trips, or park on the street.

To me, "appliance" is sometimes derogatory but more often its an indicator of "not a car you'd use purely for driving pleasure."


But to get back to the original poster....

I think he wants a fun car, but can't really have two cars. There's no question that his Lexus IS would probably be more reliable than the Jaguar overall. But then if it comes down to wanting a fun car and finding an opportunity to own one while simultaneously getting rid of an $800/month payment that can now be earmarked for "repairs as necessary" on the Jag, the whole proposition starts to look pretty good. As I said earlier, even a Jaguar isn't likely to cost an average of 800/month to keep driveable. Especially not a '94- they were getting much better by then. And as a knowledgeable Jaguar owner pointed out, many of the things that would make owning one "unpleasant" to someone who thinks of cars as appliances are actually quite easy/cheap to fix and acceptable to someone who sees owning the car as part practical and part hobby opportunity.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
So let me see if I understand.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure you don't.

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit

You have a 1 year old "look at me, I'm pretending to be rich" car on which you can't afford the $800/month payments. You want to trade it for a 17 year old "look at me, I'm trying to be cool" car that's noted for being unreliable.

Your excuse is that you've gotten used to "power and convertibles", when the reality is you're using vehicles to try to boost your low self esteem and shallow self image, correct?

My advice would be to bail out from under the Lexus, purchase something cheap, boring and reliable, and then invest some of the savings in a therapist. You need serious emotional help, and you're trying to use a car as a crutch for emotional issues.

To top it off you were almost completely out of debt, but by your own account you went deeply into debt again for ego boosting purchases? Doesn't that behavior strike you as a bit bizarre?

No amount of car buying or trading will fix what's wrong. You need serious emotional help.


Pop_Rivit- this is BITOG- this forum is full of automotive ENTHUSIASTS- not just refrigerator / other appliance owners. Most people here have a PASSION for cars- it's pretty obvious that you have a passion for ridiculous armchair-pop-psychology instead. Tip: stick to your day job. I'm pretty sure the OP didn't ask for your laughable psychoanalysis, anyway.

Let me speak your language: considering that you don't know the OP from Adam, and considering how quickly you assumed all sorts of psychobabble from a single posting on a message forum, I think you are projecting your own serious emotional issues onto the OP. Take heed: no amount of posting faux-psychoanalysis or denial will fix what's wrong. You need serious emotional help. Please do yourself a favor: turn off the Oprah, put down the Cosmo and Psychology Today, look in the mirror, and then tell your therapist all about it, NOT us BITOG members, because we are here to talk about cars, not the obvious emotional issues you are projecting onto innocent posters. Have a nice day!

So I assume you failed to comprehend this part of the original posters conversation. Note that he got hit with some emotional stuff and "fell off the wagon".

Quote:
The Dave Ramsey plan is why I keep coming back to dumping the Lexus car payment but just can't bring myself to do it (plus wife is dead set against it). Was on the plan, was within a month of getting CC's paid off, had a paid off little Mini Cooper I loved, and my wife's car we could have paid off by now. Then I hit a bad period with some emotional stuff and fell of the wagon. Got the Lexus and started to build the credit card back up. Guess that's my stupid tax.


Quote:
Say a prayer that we find a buyer soon for our house.


Unlike moving2, I've always felt that keeping one's financial house in order is of utmost priority. Considering that the original poster "fell off the wagon" after getting hit with some "emotional stuff" tells me that there are some deep issues going on, especially since the original poster admitted to post traumatic stress disorder. He can't afford his car payment and he is asking for prayers to get his house sold, and he admits to racking up credit card debt.

The original poster needs help getting back on the financial bandwagon, or he's heading for loan default, bankruptcy or worse. Until he manages to deal with the demons that are causing him to live beyond his means he'll never do it. Before he can get his finances straight he has to get his head straight.

It's too bad that moving2 can't deal with a little blunt honesty. I hope that the original poster will realize that he's on the wrong financial path and begin making some serious corrections before too much damage is done.

The choice is his-follow moving2's advice and continue to be a "car enthusiast", or follow sage advice and learn how to get out from under the debt and stay out from under the debt.

If you learn how to get out from under the debt, then you can pay cash for your toys and really be enthusiastic. That really makes the guys like moving2 green with envy.

 

[fdcg27]

I have the mild version e36, with the M42 1.8 four cylinder, and it has been a pretty good summertime daily driver.
Yes, the car does need things that a Honda or a Subaru wouldn't, but it is nowhere near an old XJS, even if the Jaguar has the later inline six rather than the SOHC V-12.
Heck, if I wanted an XJS, it would be to get the V-12.
Moving from a Toyota product to a Jaguar to save money would be like moving from Ohio to Shanghai because you heard that the climate might be better.

 

[ffracer]

Car that is an appliance is a simple definition:

one with no soul

A Toyota Camry, most Korean cars, and a Chevrolet Lumina are appliances. Cars for people who don't like driving.

An Alfa Romeo has soul. A Camaro has soul. A Jeep Wrangler has soul. A Honda S2000 has soul.

It is really that simple. Even econo cars have soul or are appliances: Yaris - appliance. Ford Fiesta/Mazda 2 - soul.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I love driving, and love driving my Camry. How do you resolve that? According to you, I must not like driving.

 

[moving2]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit

So I assume you failed to comprehend this part of the original posters conversation. Note that he got hit with some emotional stuff and "fell off the wagon".


So he went through some stuff and made some bad financial choices. He came here asking for automotive advice, not laughable "psychological advice" from some random, obviously unqualified guy on the internet. You're not his psych, and you come off as a terribly bad armchair-pop-psychologist, so like I said, do yourself a favor and stick to your day job. What you call "blunt honesty" is completely unsolicited psychobabble.

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit

If you learn how to get out from under the debt, then you can pay cash for your toys and really be enthusiastic. That really makes the guys like moving2 green with envy.


So I see that assuming all sorts of things about people you don't know is a pattern with you. Have you seen a REAL psychologist about this issue, Pops? You may want to address the obvious and ridiculous projection of your own emotional issues onto total strangers first.

As for making "guys like me" "green with envy" (again, you have no idea who I am, yet you assume all sorts of things from a single message board posting), have you looked at the age of my vehicles? Yeah, all paid off. Not paying my mortgage payment out of my pocket, either. Oh and BTW, I did NOT purchase all of my vehicles, nor my home, with cash outright, I have excellent credit, I got good interest rates on my auto and home loans, and *gasp* everything's worked out just fine! Now what were you saying about "guys like me" and "envy" again, Pops?

Newsflash: not everyone thinks the same way you do, and there's nothing "wrong" with them or with the concept of credit if used wisely. Newsflash #2: don't pretend to be a psychologist. You're not fooling anyone- you're only giving us a good laugh (thanks, BTW).

Wanna try more assumptions? You know what they say about the word "assume", I'm sure, but only you personify that idiom here, Pops.

 

[KrisZ]

It's easy to spend money that does not belong to you.

I think Pop Rivit's advice is sound although blunt, even OP admitted that he wanted to be talked out of this idea.


Personally if I was in a financial crunch I would put my enthusiast "needs" to rest until I got everything under control. If that would mean getting rid of the Lexus and getting Hyundai Accent, so be it.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
It's easy to spend money that does not belong to you.

I think Pop Rivit's advice is sound although blunt, even OP admitted that he wanted to be talked out of this idea.


Personally if I was in a financial crunch I would put my enthusiast "needs" to rest until I got everything under control. If that would mean getting rid of the Lexus and getting Hyundai Accent, so be it.


Perhaps the financial advice was sound.

The judgments about the OP Psyche were out of line and I believe not in line with the TOS here.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Appliance doesn't have to be a car you don't like.

To me, the term implies a car that doesn't stir your passions. You can like the car because it just works. But it's unlikely that you'll LOVE the car with any passion.

I liked my Geo Prizm for it's appliance like qualities. It just worked, with a minimum of fuss. It wasn't a passionate affair. It was a satisfactory arrangement.


+1. You beat me to writing a very similar response.

-Spyder

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
So let me see if I understand.

You have a 1 year old "look at me, I'm pretending to be rich" car on which you can't afford the $800/month payments. You want to trade it for a 17 year old "look at me, I'm trying to be cool" car that's noted for being unreliable.

Your excuse is that you've gotten used to "power and convertibles", when the reality is you're using vehicles to try to boost your low self esteem and shallow self image, correct?

My advice would be to bail out from under the Lexus, purchase something cheap, boring and reliable, and then invest some of the savings in a therapist. You need serious emotional help, and you're trying to use a car as a crutch for emotional issues.

To top it off you were almost completely out of debt, but by your own account you went deeply into debt again for ego boosting purchases? Doesn't that behavior strike you as a bit bizarre?

No amount of car buying or trading will fix what's wrong. You need serious emotional help.




I don't think that's the case at all.The lexus is pretty much a common everyday car,when i see one "rich" is the last thing i think.Now a Mayback,RR,Bently,MB600,Lambo,Ferrari etc is another story.

The old Jag is "cool",the guy likes cars and that's a good thing IMO.He is just trying to save the big payment and still enjoy the things he likes.

If the kind of car you drive is an indicator of ones mental health than i should have been locked up 30 years ago.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: ffracer
Car that is an appliance is a simple definition:

one with no soul

A Toyota Camry, most Korean cars, and a Chevrolet Lumina are appliances. Cars for people who don't like driving.



I was with you until your last sentence. I love driving, but there is a time and a place for appliances. I have an appliance (the 01 2wd Cherokee) that I like for its ruggedness more than for its driving characteristics or styling.

I guess we could start parsing whether brute ruggedness is as much a part of "soul" as are innovative styling, clever engineering, or performance.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: cadfaeltex
That's what my mind was telling me - ie 11/10. So what would be a good under $10K car that reliable and also a little fun? Is there such a beast?


You MIGHT be able to find a Terminator ('03/'04 Cobra) for that price. MAYBE. That would be a whole lot of fun! And they are also very reliable.