How come the USA is underrated?

[mopar_monkey]

Originally Posted By: kb01
Originally Posted By: mopar_monkey

move to oregon, your wife can get oregon health plan which is free, it covers everything while she's pregnant and will cover the baby after it is born, my wife is pregnant currently and that is the only way we can afford it right now, it is also covering my 3 yr old, i hate using it but i have no choice right now, business isn't good right now due to the economy.


Unfortunately, in our state we make too much to qualify for any prenatal/birth subsidies but not enough to afford the plan through work. We've debated dropping insurance entirely and just paying cash for the childbirth but don't want to risk it (any complications would ruin us financially). We'll probably take out a 2nd mortgage (or cash out our IRA) to cover the hospital bills and drop insurance entirely come renewal time next year. I can get by with the VA and we can buy a private policy for my wife and kids for significantly less.

For living in one of the most religious nations in the western world and that supposedly supports family values, it's mind boggling to me that if we were to get a divorce and have an out-of-wedlock child, the prenatal care and birth would be covered 100% by the state.


unfortunately it seems these days if your married you get punished. i have paid way more taxes married then i ever did single and it seems like we don't qualify for anything anymore. if it wasn't for the child care we pay for my 3 yr old and the fact that i'm making less now we would be up a creek without a paddle.

 

[expat]

Many Americans don't seem to understand our Canadian Gun laws,
It's not that we can't defend ourselves, it's just, if we do, and some one is shot or even killed, we are required to explain ourselves.
This incident happened locally earlier this year. This is the news report at the end of the trial:

[Bruce Voigt breathed an audible sigh of relief as a jury rendered its not guilty verdict earlier this evening in a Duncan courtroom.

Sequestered just a few hours earlier, the nine-woman, three-man jury found Voigt not guilty of second-degree murder and not guilty of the lesser charge of manslaughter.

“I’m feeling good,” Voigt said after his lawyer, Clint Sadlemyer, congratulated him.

“It’s been a year and-a-half.

“It’s been tough.”

Voigt, 69, had been charged with second-degree murder after the Nov. 3, 2008 death of Duncan homeless man Robert Harper.

Harper was intoxicated and creating a disturbance at the Duncan RV Park on Boys Road that evening.

He tried to enter Voigt’s locked trailer and woke up the sleeping resident by banging on the trailer walls, calling for a woman named Phyllis throughout the park.

Voigt told Harper there was no one in the trailer with him, to which Harper replied with a death threat.

That’s when Voigt went to the back of his trailer, picked up and loaded his 250-calibre Savage rifle, and shot out the window as a warning to Harper.

But Harper, who had been banging on the trailer door next to the window just moments prior to Voigt pulling the trigger, was shot in the chest and subsequently died.

The jury’s verdict, delivered at about 6 p.m. Thursday, concludes the trial that started April 26.]

 

[crinkles]

Originally Posted By: kb01
Originally Posted By: silverrat
My father spent 16 months in the hospital for when he had cancer. 6 surgical procedures followed by radiation treatments, skin grafts and got a colostomy. It was all taken care of by OHIP and I'm very thankful to have been born in Canada.

I'm always amazed when I hear these kind of stories. As an American, fighting with insurance, paying deposits, getting EOBs, paying deductibles, copays, out of pocket maximums, coinsurance, pre-approvals, approvals, appealing insurance declines, etc. is such an ingrained way of life, it's almost unfathomable that in most parts of the world, it's not not the norm at all. I can't imagine being admitted to a hospital without paying a deposit or being discharged without a payment plan.

My wife is pregnant, which was completely unplanned (due to a failed vasectomy) and it couldn't have come at a worst time. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited but we just found out that our insurance premiums are going up to $800/month, while dropping dental and vision. We just had to pre-pay the obstetrician for the prenatal care ($2,500 check) and our local hospital wants a $1,000 deposit and the balance due paid within 6 months.

The due date is in February, which means we'll have two years of deductibles to deal with ($2,500 per year) and the hospital will bill a big chunk of their fees to the baby, which will have his or her own $2,500 deductible. All in all, it's going to cost $7,500 while we pay close to $10,000/year on health insurance.

It wasn't long ago that my employer paid 100% of our premiums but the economy has slowly gone to pot. I like the field that I'm in but it's no time to be looking for a job in it. At this point, I'm hoping to get a job (any job) with the government solely for the benefits. The worst part of paying $10,000/year on insurance is knowing that if I get sick enough that I can't work, I'll lose my insurance and we'll lose our house, even after paying into the system my entire adult life.


the US health system appears to me to be almost criminal.

I Pay $1k a year in Medicare levy; takes care of 90% of costs.

 

[Silk]

You have to pay to have a baby? That's sick,no one is ever penalised for having children here.All our kids were born at home - that's free too.

 

[kb01]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan


Wow! If you can buy insurance, why would you drop it? One medical necessity and you will be screwed for the rest of your life. When it comes to health insurance, I'm like hank Hill from the "King of the Hill". You sometimes have no control over medical issues (accidents like being hit by a car, or medical conditions like stroke).


We're not going to. There are some risk factors to the pregnancy. Odds are, we'll be fine but any time in the neonatal unit would ruin us.

The reason we'd even consider dropping insurance: the premiums. They're going up to $800/month ($9,600/year with a $5,000 family deductible). Because the pregnancy is across two plan years, we'll have to have two years worth of deductibles; all-in-all, for an uncomplicated birth and prenatal care, we're looking at around $7-$10k in health expenses plus another $10k for insurance.

That coupled with daycare is going to push us to the brink.

I think we're just going to suffer through the next plan year and then drop our insurance entirely. My wife and kids can get a private policy for significantly less and I'll rely on the VA. I'm hoping the economy will improve, so I can get a job with a better health plan but my background is so geared towards coal mining (I do environmental consulting), it's going to be hard.

 

[CivicFan]

I was gonna guess that you were self-employed to have such high premium.

Here is some punditry about high-deductible plans such as kb01's.

These HDHP are only usable for young and healthy single people in their 20-s. It is basically an insurance against catastrophic events. If one requires health care beyond catastrophic events then HDHP are not for them. Unfortunately, the policy makers do not see it this way. The Massachusetts Romney reform was touted as a success story in reducing the number of uninsured but they stuffed people in HDHP plans instead of providing proper insurance.

 

[mopar_monkey]

Originally Posted By: Silk
You have to pay to have a baby? That's sick,no one is ever penalised for having children here.All our kids were born at home - that's free too.


when my son was born we had to pay $5,000 and that was with insurance, he's 3 now and we just paid off his medical bill. when he got the swine flu last year and was having trouble breathing we took him to the emergency room, we where there for 1.5 hrs and it cost us $1,800.

 

[kb01]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan
I was gonna guess that you were self-employed to have such high premium.

Here is some punditry about high-deductible plans such as kb01's.

These HDHP are only usable for young and healthy single people in their 20-s. It is basically an insurance against catastrophic events. If one requires health care beyond catastrophic events then HDHP are not for them. Unfortunately, the policy makers do not see it this way. The Massachusetts Romney reform was touted as a success story in reducing the number of uninsured but they stuffed people in HDHP plans instead of providing proper insurance.


Nope, not self employed. I have insurance through my employer, who pays 3/4 of the cost of an individual policy or the equivalent amount towards a family policy -- IRC, they pay around $300/month towards the plan and contribute $50 towards my HSA. We're currently paying around $500 a month, which isn't too bad but going up to $800/month is going to be tough.

Renewal time is right around the corner but I can't drop our plan and switch to an individual policy because pregnancy is a pre-existing condition for individual plans. This means we need to ride out our current policy (which is going up in price) through the next plan year to have any protection.

I have no inherent problems with HDHP/HSA plans. It's just we're getting hit with multiple things at once -- I had to have a cancerous mole removed last year which drained our account, the current pregnancy was unplanned, and it's happening over two plan years.

 

[kb01]

Originally Posted By: mopar_monkey


when my son was born we had to pay $5,000 and that was with insurance, he's 3 now and we just paid off his medical bill. when he got the swine flu last year and was having trouble breathing we took him to the emergency room, we where there for 1.5 hrs and it cost us $1,800.


Ouch. That's my fear -- I'm really worried that between the increased premiums and making payments to the hospital, we simply wont be able to put anything away towards future health issues.

I spent about four hours yesterday calling hospitals to get estimates for time in the maternity unit. It was like pulling teeth to get any information. The closest hospital said you can make payment plans up to 18 months but if you can't pay enough to get it paid off in that time frame, it will immediately be sent to collections.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
The closest hospital said you can make payment plans up to 18 months but if you can't pay enough to get it paid off in that time frame, it will immediately be sent to collections.


Check the laws in your state. I've never had anything sent to collections that was an active account. I only had to do that where there was an insurance paradox. That is, where my plan covered the procedure to the amount that the managed bill would be, but due to it being (at the time) Capital BC/[censored] instead of Independence BC/[censored], they got to hammer me for the full funny money amount. The practice went out of business before I paid off the bill. I assume that it was absorbed by a bigger outfit.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Check the laws in your state. I've never had anything sent to collections that was an active account. I only had to do that where there was an insurance paradox. That is, where my plan covered the procedure to the amount that the managed bill would be, but due to it being (at the time) Capital BC/[censored] instead of Independence BC/[censored], they got to hammer me for the full funny money amount. The practice went out of business before I paid off the bill. I assume that it was absorbed by a bigger outfit.


Something similar happened to one of my coworker, he had a neck / spine surgery and his insurance from work cover it for an amount the insurance determined (common practice nowadays), but the practice think they deserve more and sell the remaining amount that they attempt to charge to a collection agency. When my coworker found out, he and his wife were yelling at the collection agency so loud, and threaten to counter sue them / report them to government agency, that they didn't dare to call back to collect, and write off the amount.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: TTK
People in other countries frequently complain that the US life style requires that we work too many hours per week and have to commute too far to work. That drags us down in the rankings.

All that work results in inventing things that raise our standard of living and the rest of the world befits from....

 

[silverrat]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: TTK
People in other countries frequently complain that the US life style requires that we work too many hours per week and have to commute too far to work. That drags us down in the rankings.

All that work results in inventing things that raise our standard of living and the rest of the world befits from....


Please elaborate?

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
We have prevalent poverty in this country where about 30% of the children go to bed hungry at any given time.

Really? Then how come I keep seeing all of this stuff about the obese kids epidemic and all of the restrictions on food that are needed to "solve" the problem?

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: TTK
People in other countries frequently complain that the US life style requires that we work too many hours per week and have to commute too far to work. That drags us down in the rankings.

All that work results in inventing things that raise our standard of living and the rest of the world befits from....


The commuting has nothing to do with raising our standard of living, but to do with keeping up with the Jones on the SUV and 2000 sq ft house with 1000 sq ft lawn.

The concept that you must have a house rather than a condo or renting is the major reason for the long commute, IMO.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
We have prevalent poverty in this country where about 30% of the children go to bed hungry at any given time.

Really? Then how come I keep seeing all of this stuff about the obese kids epidemic and all of the restrictions on food that are needed to "solve" the problem?


Wrong Food?

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
In the 50's they were saying higher automation and productivity would allow a shorter work week. It didn't turn out that way at all.


The people making that prediction didn't take into consideration that the benefits of higher automation and productivity would go to the owners of the means of production.

So you are saying the fact that we have many more people in the US with a MUCH higher standard of living compared to the 50's is not correct?

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
We have prevalent poverty in this country where about 30% of the children go to bed hungry at any given time.

Really? Then how come I keep seeing all of this stuff about the obese kids epidemic and all of the restrictions on food that are needed to "solve" the problem?


Wrong Food?


I think it was meant to said children are malnutrition but obese, somehow it got lost in translation and becomes going to bed hungry.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
We have prevalent poverty in this country where about 30% of the children go to bed hungry at any given time.

Really? Then how come I keep seeing all of this stuff about the obese kids epidemic and all of the restrictions on food that are needed to "solve" the problem?


Wrong Food?

"Evil" fast food and candy make kids fat, not hungry. I want to see some proof of this supposed 30% going hungry every day when we have a supposed child obesity problem.

Does not compute.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

The commuting has nothing to do with raising our standard of living, but to do with keeping up with the Jones on the SUV and 2000 sq ft house with 1000 sq ft lawn.

The concept that you must have a house rather than a condo or renting is the major reason for the long commute, IMO.


People want a higher standard of living that a nice car and house provides them. The average house in the US is significantly larger than that of Europe.