How come the USA is underrated?

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

Gary, Europe is in shambles. Maybe even worse then the US! While we're trying to spend ourselves into oblivion, Europe is cutting their budgets by 25% because the Euro is on the verge of collapsing.


..and how much of that was due to our own little fiasco credit swap? We sucked the rest of the planet down with us in that rip off.

Yes, Europe was aging in it's Utopian appeal. All the western democracies were suffering under demographics. The difference being that while we sent our economic vitality wholesale offshore to continually "expand" markets (90% of the population, including myself, had no idea what that REALLY meant) ..they managed their decline in a much more stable manner (until FORCED).

No, there's no magic wand that makes things great, but there sure are ways to assure a bad outcome.

 

[addyguy]

I have always thought America is amazing country, simply for the diversity of life-styles that can exist on one continent.

You can have people in NY who are complete city-dwellers; people in Nebraska who are farmers and haven't seen an office tower; people in ND who know what winter cold is; folks in Califiornia who've never seen snow....I could go on into the night.

And all that diversity is all on one continent. I just think that's pretty cool!

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
In the 50's they were saying higher automation and productivity would allow a shorter work week. It didn't turn out that way at all.


The people making that prediction didn't take into consideration that the benefits of higher automation and productivity would go to the owners of the means of production.


Hey, that's as close to trickle down as you get,...


Every time I hear the term trickle down i am reminded of an article about a tribe on Indians in Northern Mexico where the chief and shamans got to eat the peyote and the next level down the hierarchy was allowed to drink their urine which had enough peyote hallucinogens in it to give a mild high.


I think that a more expansive text was used as a primer in some of our more prestigious prep schools.

Look at all the downstream watershed benefits to the whole thing

 

[silverrat]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
I have always thought America is amazing country, simply for the diversity of life-styles that can exist on one continent.

You can have people in NY who are complete city-dwellers; people in Nebraska who are farmers and haven't seen an office tower; people in ND who know what winter cold is; folks in Califiornia who've never seen snow....I could go on into the night.

And all that diversity is all on one continent. I just think that's pretty cool!


That is a point of view that I have never considered before.

 

[INMY01TA]

Originally Posted By: silverrat
This thread is completely political. Having said that, I believe the United States is overrated.

The United States - Guns + Health Care = Canada
Is that supposed to be a good thing? No thanks.

 

[silverrat]

I think it's a good thing that I feel safe enough were I live that I don't feel the need to have a gun. And that regardless of my financial status I can get major medical treatment without ruining my financial future.

My father spent 16 months in the hospital for when he had cancer. 6 surgical procedures followed by radiation treatments, skin grafts and got a colostomy. It was all taken care of by OHIP and I'm very thankful to have been born in Canada.

 

[mopar_monkey]

you guys do have a decent health care plan, that i wish the u.s. could figure out in a way that would be good for most instead of just some, the gun issue on the other hand is something that i honestly think we have right, please no angry reply's. i don't live in fear and don't have my gun because i'm afraid of crime, i enjoy shooting as sport and the original intent was to keep the government in check as well as to provide more resistance in case of invasion, which has actually served it's purpose, during ww2 japan had ruled out invading the u.s. claiming that "there would be a gun behind every blade of grass." also in countrys that have banned guns after allowing their citizens to have weapons have shown increases of violent crime, so i do believe they work as a deterrent at some level. but i do understand for people that have never had them it's is hard to see value in such things.

 

[mechanicx]

Supposedly Mexico has about as strict gun laws as Canada, and look how safe Mexico is. It's like the old saying when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have them. Point is, it's not guns that cause violence but other factors, and it's not the real reason Canada is a relatively safe place.

The main thing I have against Canada is it seems like a lot of things are more expensive or unavailable. Even things like motor oil. And it is cold there, with no warm and sunny beaches.

 

[kb01]

Originally Posted By: silverrat
My father spent 16 months in the hospital for when he had cancer. 6 surgical procedures followed by radiation treatments, skin grafts and got a colostomy. It was all taken care of by OHIP and I'm very thankful to have been born in Canada.

I'm always amazed when I hear these kind of stories. As an American, fighting with insurance, paying deposits, getting EOBs, paying deductibles, copays, out of pocket maximums, coinsurance, pre-approvals, approvals, appealing insurance declines, etc. is such an ingrained way of life, it's almost unfathomable that in most parts of the world, it's not not the norm at all. I can't imagine being admitted to a hospital without paying a deposit or being discharged without a payment plan.

My wife is pregnant, which was completely unplanned (due to a failed vasectomy) and it couldn't have come at a worst time. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited but we just found out that our insurance premiums are going up to $800/month, while dropping dental and vision. We just had to pre-pay the obstetrician for the prenatal care ($2,500 check) and our local hospital wants a $1,000 deposit and the balance due paid within 6 months.

The due date is in February, which means we'll have two years of deductibles to deal with ($2,500 per year) and the hospital will bill a big chunk of their fees to the baby, which will have his or her own $2,500 deductible. All in all, it's going to cost $7,500 while we pay close to $10,000/year on health insurance.

It wasn't long ago that my employer paid 100% of our premiums but the economy has slowly gone to pot. I like the field that I'm in but it's no time to be looking for a job in it. At this point, I'm hoping to get a job (any job) with the government solely for the benefits. The worst part of paying $10,000/year on insurance is knowing that if I get sick enough that I can't work, I'll lose my insurance and we'll lose our house, even after paying into the system my entire adult life.

 

[StevieC]

You can hunt in Canada and own guns for sporting events... You just can't carry it around in public or conceal it.

You can also be charged using it in self-defense in some cases.

 

[mopar_monkey]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
You can hunt in Canada and own guns for sporting events... You just can't carry it around in public or conceal it.

You can also be charged using it in self-defense in some cases.

that's very sad, if someone is a threat to you or your family you should be able to use what ever means necessary to defend your self, and the people that have concealed weapons permits and carry a concealed weapon are not the ones using them for purposes of crime, if they aren't going to obey laws againest robbing and murder then they sure aren't going to obey a law keeping them from carrying a weapon, the best way to combat this is to have more people legally carrying weapons, maybe the criminals would think twice if there was a good chance the victim they are trying to rob had a gun.

 

[mopar_monkey]

Originally Posted By: kb01
Originally Posted By: silverrat
My father spent 16 months in the hospital for when he had cancer. 6 surgical procedures followed by radiation treatments, skin grafts and got a colostomy. It was all taken care of by OHIP and I'm very thankful to have been born in Canada.

I'm always amazed when I hear these kind of stories. As an American, fighting with insurance, paying deposits, getting EOBs, paying deductibles, copays, out of pocket maximums, coinsurance, pre-approvals, approvals, appealing insurance declines, etc. is such an ingrained way of life, it's almost unfathomable that in most parts of the world, it's not not the norm at all. I can't imagine being admitted to a hospital without paying a deposit or being discharged without a payment plan.

My wife is pregnant, which was completely unplanned (due to a failed vasectomy) and it couldn't have come at a worst time. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited but we just found out that our insurance premiums are going up to $800/month, while dropping dental and vision. We just had to pre-pay the obstetrician for the prenatal care ($2,500 check) and our local hospital wants a $1,000 deposit and the balance due paid within 6 months.

The due date is in February, which means we'll have two years of deductibles to deal with ($2,500 per year) and the hospital will bill a big chunk of their fees to the baby, which will have his or her own $2,500 deductible. All in all, it's going to cost $7,500 while we pay close to $10,000/year on health insurance.

It wasn't long ago that my employer paid 100% of our premiums but the economy has slowly gone to pot. I like the field that I'm in but it's no time to be looking for a job in it. At this point, I'm hoping to get a job (any job) with the government solely for the benefits. The worst part of paying $10,000/year on insurance is knowing that if I get sick enough that I can't work, I'll lose my insurance and we'll lose our house, even after paying into the system my entire adult life.

move to oregon, your wife can get oregon health plan which is free, it covers everything while she's pregnant and will cover the baby after it is born, my wife is pregnant currently and that is the only way we can afford it right now, it is also covering my 3 yr old, i hate using it but i have no choice right now, business isn't good right now due to the economy.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: mopar_monkey
Originally Posted By: StevieC
You can hunt in Canada and own guns for sporting events... You just can't carry it around in public or conceal it.

You can also be charged using it in self-defense in some cases.

that's very sad, if someone is a threat to you or your family you should be able to use what ever means necessary to defend your self, and the people that have concealed weapons permits and carry a concealed weapon are not the ones using them for purposes of crime, if they aren't going to obey laws againest robbing and murder then they sure aren't going to obey a law keeping them from carrying a weapon, the best way to combat this is to have more people legally carrying weapons, maybe the criminals would think twice if there was a good chance the victim they are trying to rob had a gun.


The only times I have ever heard of someone being charged in Canada using a firearm in self defense (and it's rare enough that it makes news, and generates controversy) are when the person defending themselves was violating a firearm law. Hypothetically, if I was walking down the street with a concealed firearm (a big no-no here) and was mugged by a kid armed with a knife and I shot him, I'd expect to have the book thrown at me. Also, if I shot an intruder before or instead of calling Big Brother for help and waiting 10 minutes for them arrive, and it came to pass that I kept a *loaded* weapon in an unlocked vessel (again, a big no-no here) then I'd likely be charged.

It's not as Orwellian as it's made out to be on Fox News, but our laws are comparatively restrictive and probably more a detriment to an individual's personal safety than a benefit to society's.

 

[javacontour]

Are we really underrated, or is it the world is catching up and in some instances even passing us?

One really cannot be the best at everything. So there will be things we are really good at, and things where others are better.

When I think of sports cars, the Corvette is good, but Ferrari and Porsche are better.

On the other hand, good can be a victim of the best. Germany tried to build "the best" weapons in WWII. Their tanks were better than ours and for a long time, their planes were better. We simply out numbered them. So a half-dozen mediocre gasoline fueled, highly explosive Sherman Tanks (known as Tommy Cookers by the Germans) could overwhelm a Tiger Tank. One on one, the Tiger would win far more than it would lose. When it was 6 Shermans vs a Tiger, the Tiger was going down.

So the question is, are we really underrated, or are there areas of legitimate weakness we have in the US. I say it's the latter. We've long rested on our laurels and the rest of the world is catching up.

 

[StevieC]

Technically by Canadian Law you can be charged if using a gun for defense if the threat to you isn't equal or greater meaning that they have you at gun point or have a weapon and are stabbing you or something along those lines.

If someone breaks into your house and attacks you without a gun and you shoot him/her you can be charged.

There was a huge discussion about it recently in the news because this happened in Hamilton and the guy was charged and his lawyer was trying to win for his client who was severely beaten and was managed to make it to a gun and shot the guy and the guy pressed charges.

For the record I don't agree with this case and think you should have the right to defend yourself in your home when someone enters it unauthorized.

I don't however think you have the right to carry and use a weapon in public for your own safety and for everyone elses safety for that matter.

JMO. Don't everyone go starting a war...

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: PandaBear

Most of the section 8 renters have a job, they just didn't make enough to support a family if they have to pay 100% rent, so the government pays a percentage based on their income of the year (according to the tax form).


Most of them I've dealt with have a job indeed - selling narcotics. They usually also have 3 or 4 kids. Bad decisions all around.

Not all of them are as I described, but there's a whole bunch of people who like nothing more then to live on welfare because it puts food on their table and a roof over their heads, and it's easier for them to live off of handouts.

As for home prices, the section 8 areas that have popped up in formerly very nice neighborhoods in my area, have become slums, and home prices have been squashed.


My wife is a social worker and she would repeat the same thing you've said. Once a family gets on the welfare cycle, it practically guarantees the children will fall in line and get on board with the handouts as well.

As one in the middle, I'm tired of the costs being shifted to the middle and upper classes. If someone makes a bad decision, instead of going to some bureaucracy to get housing, food, etc, they should have to stand before their local community and explain why they need help and what their plan is to get off the dole.

I.E. if they are a dropout, why does the social contract go one way, with the benefits coming their direction? Why is there not a requirement that they are in school? It may or may not help. But I'm pretty sure remaining a dropout will not improve their situation.

Ditto for those who either father a dozen kids, or get knocked up a dozen times by a (number approaching the number of children) collection of baby daddies.

OK, you get pregnant once as a teen, you were young and naive. When it happens 11 more times, at some point, you have to take ownership of what you are doing.

 

[kb01]

Originally Posted By: mopar_monkey

move to oregon, your wife can get oregon health plan which is free, it covers everything while she's pregnant and will cover the baby after it is born, my wife is pregnant currently and that is the only way we can afford it right now, it is also covering my 3 yr old, i hate using it but i have no choice right now, business isn't good right now due to the economy.


Unfortunately, in our state we make too much to qualify for any prenatal/birth subsidies but not enough to afford the plan through work. We've debated dropping insurance entirely and just paying cash for the childbirth but don't want to risk it (any complications would ruin us financially). We'll probably take out a 2nd mortgage (or cash out our IRA) to cover the hospital bills and drop insurance entirely come renewal time next year. I can get by with the VA and we can buy a private policy for my wife and kids for significantly less.

For living in one of the most religious nations in the western world and that supposedly supports family values, it's mind boggling to me that if we were to get a divorce and have an out-of-wedlock child, the prenatal care and birth would be covered 100% by the state.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: kb01
We've debated dropping insurance entirely and just paying cash for the childbirth but don't want to risk it (any complications would ruin us financially). We'll probably take out a 2nd mortgage (or cash out our IRA) to cover the hospital bills and drop insurance entirely come renewal time next year. I can get by with the VA and we can buy a private policy for my wife and kids for significantly less.


Wow! If you can buy insurance, why would you drop it? One medical necessity and you will be screwed for the rest of your life. When it comes to health insurance, I'm like hank Hill from the "King of the Hill". You sometimes have no control over medical issues (accidents like being hit by a car, or medical conditions like stroke).

Having no insurance usually means having no access to healthcare which in turn means deteriorating health status.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
As for home prices, the section 8 areas that have popped up in formerly very nice neighborhoods in my area, have become slums, and home prices have been squashed.



I've watched this evolved in my own community. It didn't seem to work that way. Here all gainful work went away. The same manufacturing concerns were invisibly paying big bills for the community with water and sewer fees and taxes. When those invisible subsidies went away, and the taxes went upward, giving lower and lower value for higher and higher costs, property values took a dump and the ONLY people to buy a property were investors ..who would rent them out.

Anyone would could buy elsewhere, did. My wife and I figure that ..at this point, we're trapped here.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I've watched this evolved in my own community. It didn't seem to work that way. Here all gainful work went away. The same manufacturing concerns were invisibly paying big bills for the community with water and sewer fees and taxes. When those invisible subsidies went away, and the taxes went upward, giving lower and lower value for higher and higher costs, property values took a dump and the ONLY people to buy a property were investors ..who would rent them out.

Anyone would could buy elsewhere, did. My wife and I figure that ..at this point, we're trapped here.


This, and add in the fact that newer homes generally are taxed higher due to a cap on the valuation of a home for annual property tax increase , makes the tax revenue of older communities lowered. Lower tax reduces public services and most importantly, school funding. The school get worse, and the neighborhood get worse because parents who could afford would buy in better neighborhood.

People who rent based on section 8 tends not to care as much about school, so gradually the home price didn't catch up to other newer neighborhoods yet the rent remains the same, and it becomes a "hood" full of section 8.