How come the USA is underrated?

[kb01]

Originally Posted By: TTK
People in other countries frequently complain that the US life style requires that we work too many hours per week and have to commute too far to work. That drags us down in the rankings.


I think this is an incredibly important point. I think it's very ironic how self-loathing many Americans are; how we're lazy, overpaid, uneducated, etc. but most outsiders don't share this view.

I have many relatives living in Europe and from what they've told me, and from what I've experienced working in Europe, many just don't understand the American work ethic. They don't understand how we work 50-60 hours a week, commute an hour each way, how we pay $800/month to give our families health insurance (which we'd lose if we got sick enough to lose our jobs), with no guaranteed retirement, while paying back tens of thousands of dollars for student loans, etc.

It literally just does not compute in their minds. It's not that their systems are sustainable but they really just don't understand why or how we work so hard, with so little job security.

 

[Gary Allan]

You've made some very good points there, kb01. We are willing to go the extra mile for what we want. The key word, I think, is "want". In an open ended race, if you will, with gainful rewards for the effort exerted, it works very well for those motivated to have "more". The unfortunate side effect of having it all (at one time), is that instead of gaining to some level commensurate with how much one applies one self, it ends up being a salmon upstream just to hold your ground. Meanwhile, the Euro's are getting their daily bread without trespassing upon each other to keep above the water line.

No system is sustainable under the global currency methods. By that I mean there will never be a stable sustainable model. It will always be, in some manner/fashion, in free fall.

 

[CivicFan]

We are not the best place to live but we are still a better place than the vast majority of the countries out there.

In my opinion, what keeps us back is the lack of a system that encourages and helps the underprivileged people. We have prevalent poverty in this country where about 30% of the children go to bed hungry at any given time.

And we do very little to have a systematic approach to try to spread the goodness of the country to help these people better themselves.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: silverrat
So is it a positive or a negative that the US has the highest rate of incarceration in the world?


If your income depends on it then it's a good thing. if your family is adversely affected by it then it's bad. As a society, the net effect in my eyes is negative. Instead of a rehabilitative effort, it's a punitive effort and people coming out of it are much worse than when they went in.

 

[milwaukee]

I'm sorry civicfan but you sound like you have spent too much time in higher education. Rehabilitation is PROVEN NOT TO WORK over and over. It IS punative and the people coming out worse is correct. Thanks to all the bleeding hearts in the USA we do not lock people up long enough for the crimes they commit not do we use the death penalty enough. Regardless of what you think the people in prison deserve to be there.

When people critize our prison system they do it from afar.

You could put your money where your mouth is and open your home to freshly paroled felons "to help the underprivliged".

Also your stats about the underprivilged are so far off that I encourage you to stop discussing this. I work with "underprivliged" thugs everyday and hunger is NOT a problem.

Get out of the classroom and actually see these people you are calling "underprivliged" and how they CHOSE to live and your tune would change.

 

[mechanicx]

Well back when the US still had lots of manufacturing, you still had the 40 hour work week, but a person with a HS diploma or less could support a family on one income, and often had job security, health insurance and retirement benefits. Plus if you didn't like one job you could pretty easily find another one. Now it seems it takes 2 incomes with college degrees and there's no job security and few other jobs available. College gradutes are hard pressed to find a job commensurate with their education level now. In the 50's they were saying higher automation and productivity would allow a shorter work week. It didn't turn out that way at all. Not only did productivity and work hours increase with no real increase in compensation, but that wasn't good enough and we have outsourcing.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Meanwhile, the Euro's are getting their daily bread without trespassing upon each other to keep above the water line.



Gary, Europe is in shambles. Maybe even worse then the US! While we're trying to spend ourselves into oblivion, Europe is cutting their budgets by 25% because the Euro is on the verge of collapsing. Countries are slashing health care and other public sector expenses dramatically and people are rioting in the streets. They have a mass influx of non-Europeans, and they have a massive decline in native population. Europe is slowly dieing. It is far from a social and economic utopia in most countries, and in the countries where it is, like Norway, they have VERY strict immigration laws and a relatively small native culture of people that doesn't have to deal with the problems of a huge population.

Essentially the same thing is happening here in the US! It's why our and their native populations are so old, and most of the younger generations are immigrants.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: milwaukee
I'm sorry civicfan but you sound like you have spent too much time in higher education. Rehabilitation is PROVEN NOT TO WORK over and over. It IS punative and the people coming out worse is correct. Thanks to all the bleeding hearts in the USA we do not lock people up long enough for the crimes they commit not do we use the death penalty enough. Regardless of what you think the people in prison deserve to be there.

When people critize our prison system they do it from afar.

You could put your money where your mouth is and open your home to freshly paroled felons "to help the underprivliged".

Also your stats about the underprivilged are so far off that I encourage you to stop discussing this. I work with "underprivliged" thugs everyday and hunger is NOT a problem.

Get out of the classroom and actually see these people you are calling "underprivliged" and how they CHOSE to live and your tune would change.


Funny to see a topic about 'underrated USA' and then seeing 'having higher education' used as a slur.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: milwaukee


Get out of the classroom and actually see these people you are calling "underprivliged" and how they CHOSE to live and your tune would change.


That and the fact that once they can get on welfare (the good welfare - section 8, food stamps, the whole package), they choose to stay there. I see it a few times a week at my job as I clean carpets at some section 8 areas. People who choose poverty, and a government that wants it that way.

I feel like a moron sometimes walking out of a house sweating like a stuck pig after working my [censored] off, and having all these dudes sitting on the hoods of their new cars all day flashing their bling at me getting paid by you and me to sit around.

Seems like a pretty sweet deal. Some of the section 8 properties in our area are NICE! And the rent these people pay...........

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
In the 50's they were saying higher automation and productivity would allow a shorter work week. It didn't turn out that way at all.


The people making that prediction didn't take into consideration that the benefits of higher automation and productivity would go to the owners of the means of production.

 

[The_Jeff]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

Seems like a pretty sweet deal. Some of the section 8 properties in our area are NICE! And the rent these people pay...........

...goes to landlords and other "capitalists." I was directly competing against section 8 tenants when I got my first job and was trying for a bottom-of-the-barrell apartment so I could save for a mortgage, the american dream, girlfriend, yadda yadda.

It's like that $8k 1st home tax credit, the money goes to those who previously already owned investment property and were suffering a momentary setback.

macro vs micro.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
In the 50's they were saying higher automation and productivity would allow a shorter work week. It didn't turn out that way at all.


The people making that prediction didn't take into consideration that the benefits of higher automation and productivity would go to the owners of the means of production.


Hey, that's as close to trickle down as you get, automation improve quality of live and the company's bottom line, and your ESPP and salary will increase according to the "your company is making money, you're making money" and "well, you could have bought stocks in the companies you work for" philosophies.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

Seems like a pretty sweet deal. Some of the section 8 properties in our area are NICE! And the rent these people pay...........

...goes to landlords and other "capitalists." I was directly competing against section 8 tenants when I got my first job and was trying for a bottom-of-the-barrell apartment so I could save for a mortgage, the american dream, girlfriend, yadda yadda.

It's like that $8k 1st home tax credit, the money goes to those who previously already owned investment property and were suffering a momentary setback.

macro vs micro.


Agree, people always blame the section 8 renters and 1st time home buyer for taking advantage of the system and abuse it. When in reality the section 8 renters and home buyers are bidding up the rent and home price at the entry level.

Most of the section 8 renters have a job, they just didn't make enough to support a family if they have to pay 100% rent, so the government pays a percentage based on their income of the year (according to the tax form). The government survey the local rent scale and set a typical price that the landlord can rent at if they want. It artificially suppressed the pay scale and the rent scale.

It is a hand out to the rich just as much as a hand out to the poor. The real non-handout solution is to reduce regulation on redevelopment, so more housing will be in the supply. That hurt the property owners and the banks that hold the loans, so it's not going to happen.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

Seems like a pretty sweet deal. Some of the section 8 properties in our area are NICE! And the rent these people pay...........

...goes to landlords and other "capitalists."


My point as 4/5th of that rent is paid for by the US taxpayer.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

Most of the section 8 renters have a job, they just didn't make enough to support a family if they have to pay 100% rent, so the government pays a percentage based on their income of the year (according to the tax form).


Most of them I've dealt with have a job indeed - selling narcotics. They usually also have 3 or 4 kids. Bad decisions all around.

Not all of them are as I described, but there's a whole bunch of people who like nothing more then to live on welfare because it puts food on their table and a roof over their heads, and it's easier for them to live off of handouts.

As for home prices, the section 8 areas that have popped up in formerly very nice neighborhoods in my area, have become slums, and home prices have been squashed.

 

[The_Jeff]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
The real non-handout solution is to reduce regulation on redevelopment, so more housing will be in the supply. That hurt the property owners and the banks that hold the loans, so it's not going to happen.


Everyone who already owns wants new construction to be pricier than average, so the new homeowner is saddled with high taxes for schools etc while the existing town council gets off relatively scot-free.

Propose a new low income subdivision and ZOMG the traffic is too much for the streets to handle, the sewer is outdated, tons of excuses.

I know a guy whos a section 8 landlord to his own daughter.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear


It is a hand out to the rich just as much as a hand out to the poor.


Badda bing, and it's the government that created the conditions for that to be! I can think of one particular New York congressman...........but I won't name him. Actually a hole lot of them. They're laughing all the way to the bank while espousing the virtues of a just society.

 

[The_Jeff]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: PandaBear

Most of the section 8 renters have a job, they just didn't make enough to support a family if they have to pay 100% rent, so the government pays a percentage based on their income of the year (according to the tax form).


Most of them I've dealt with have a job indeed - selling narcotics. They usually also have 3 or 4 kids. Bad decisions all around.


Slinging dope is the easiest cash job you can get. It's "american" to get a 2nd job even if your first job is welfare. My angle is this should be recaptured with a consumption tax (gas for starters) with corresponding cuts in income tax for those following the rules.

Worked with a late 20 something who lived with his section 8 mom. Surely they aren't allowed to have income producing permanent houseguests? Then us tax payers cover the wear and tear he put on that building (visions of Joe Pesci in "the super" complaining "your door hinges are broken because you use the door all the time-- in, out, in out")

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
In the 50's they were saying higher automation and productivity would allow a shorter work week. It didn't turn out that way at all.


The people making that prediction didn't take into consideration that the benefits of higher automation and productivity would go to the owners of the means of production.


Hey, that's as close to trickle down as you get,...


Every time I hear the term trickle down i am reminded of an article about a tribe on Indians in Northern Mexico where the chief and shamans got to eat the peyote and the next level down the hierarchy was allowed to drink their urine which had enough peyote hallucinogens in it to give a mild high.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: PandaBear

Most of the section 8 renters have a job, they just didn't make enough to support a family if they have to pay 100% rent, so the government pays a percentage based on their income of the year (according to the tax form).


Most of them I've dealt with have a job indeed - selling narcotics. They usually also have 3 or 4 kids. Bad decisions all around.


Slinging dope is the easiest cash job you can get. It's "american" to get a 2nd job even if your first job is welfare. My angle is this should be recaptured with a consumption tax (gas for starters) with corresponding cuts in income tax for those following the rules.

Worked with a late 20 something who lived with his section 8 mom. Surely they aren't allowed to have income producing permanent houseguests? Then us tax payers cover the wear and tear he put on that building (visions of Joe Pesci in "the super" complaining "your door hinges are broken because you use the door all the time-- in, out, in out")


When I said they have a job I meant they were restaurant cooks, tailors, retail workers, delivery van drivers, etc. Honest jobs that are low paying and not illegal stuff like dealers and prostitutions.