House electrical problem has me frustrated..

[Chris142]

My dad bought the house in 1975. It was originally a homestead cabin from the 30's or 40's. It didn't get power until 58.

So power and water were scabbed in after the fact. Now I live here with my elderly mother as she cant do "Chores" in her condition.

I bought a nice 110v air compressor and air tools for goofing around in the detached garage. But I can't use the compressor as it trips the circuit breakers for various things in the house.

I had a profesional electrition come up to give me an estimate on adding another circuit for the compressor and maybe a welder in the garage.

His words were " I have never seen ANYTHING like this mess". The power for the garage is scabbed off my mothers room, which btw is partially underground. The East side of the house is about 4 ft below ground and the west side about 4 ft above ground as the house is build on a slope.

The fuse box does not have a main breaker. It just has a bunch of 15 and 20A breakers.

The wires from the meter are too small for my needs considering the 80ft run needed to get to the garage..

He was talking about putting in a different breaker box until he realized that the siding is Asbestos. He can't legally work on the house and I can't afford to have the siding removed and disposed of. This will cost more than the house value.

This is when he packed up his stuff and left.

I really don't want to go cutting/messing with the asbestos siding anyway.




I do have a well thats on two 20A breakers, But I don't think that messing/adding to my water supply's circuit is a good idea. Plus I would have to run wires across my driveway from the well to the garage. A distance of about 100ft if I take it from the well.

So I think I have 2 options.

1.Put the compressor on the porch right under the meter, there is an outlet there. Hopefully that outlet is fed directly from the meter 2ft away and the wires don't run around the house first. Then running the air line all the way to the garage.

Buy a generator capable of running the compressor and running a generator whenever I need air in the garage. I'm not diggin on either of these ideas either.

So I'm basically stuck with no air tools or welder. OH Everything is on breakers so we are not in danger of an electrical fire.

 

[yonyon]

You could get a gasoline powered compressor. Depending on what your needs are, maybe you could weld with a flame?

 

[Chris142]

I don't think Torch welding wont work for me. Making Jeep parts and such. I really don't want to listen to an engine for hrs in my garage.

 

[JHZR2]

Yeah, I'd consider a generator as a stopgap if things are too iffy.

I thought CA real estate was $$$$?

I also know that folks often upgrade their electrical service. I guess I'm not making a connection between the asbestos siding and the main breaker box inside the home... I'd just pull the electric meter, verify there isn't voltage in the box, then put in a proper square D or eaton main load center with the main breaker sized for the ampacity of the feeder wires to the home, which you completely leave as is.

Then you can start to deco volume circuits, which may be a major issue, or put them all on their own breakers as they may be already, but just run more, or run a heavy line to another sub panel someplace else to better service other loads.

I'm not seeing the connection of some issues here. Think it can be solved.

 

[Chris142]

The main breaker is outside the house and surrounded by the siding. We are in the desert where land is cheap.

 

[cmorr]

If this is going to be a long term arrangement. I would first call your power company and see about another service (second meter) on the garage.

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: cmorr
If this is going to be a long term arrangement. I would first call your power company and see about another service (second meter) on the garage.
Garage has the same asbestos siding .Figure $2500 after permits and such just for the meter+instal.. I can't afford that either.

 

[JHZR2]

Pictures???

 

[Shannow]

Chris,
a few years ago we had a new bathroom installed...when it came to electifying it, the electrician engaged refused to touch it, which left us cold and in the dark for a while, when a kitchen required the whole house done (with dodgy circuits removed and asbestos work).

$13k including the garage, $17k for the kitchen.

Workarounds in the intereim included long, heavy duty extensions, an electrician who WOULD retrofit an Earth leakage cricuit breaker on the main supply to stop it burning down until we got the whole job done.

 

[Merkava_4]

Do whatever asbestos removal that needs to be done yourself. The contractor can't
legally do it without permits, but you as the home owner, can do whatever you want.

 

[Wolf359]

Well my degree was in electrical engineering so I'm not an electrician but it'd help if there were pictures. I guess if the wiring is really crazy and that prompts an electrician to say it's a real mess then I guess you might not have a main shut off, but typically if there isn't one on the panel, it's usually somewhere near the meter, there may be a separate switch for it. Also it depends how many circuits are in your panel as it might violate code to have too many circuits, but the easy way out just seems to be to add a double circuit that only takes up one space. I guess you can also call around about the asbestos siding, I've gotten quotes of only a few hundred to remove small sections of it and then you can replace it with non asbestos fiber cement shingles. GAF makes them and you can just google it to see who sells it. As I recall, you can even get it special ordered from Home Depot. In terms of electricians, you can also try craigslists, I've found journeymen electricians there that only want $35-50/hr instead of most that want $100+. The other option is to do some of the work yourself. If you need to run a new wire, I believe that's underground feeder wire that you need and it has to be so many inches below ground. You could probably run the line and have the electrician hook it up to the panel if you could find one willing to do that. My guess would be that you would run a 10 gauge wire which would let you do a 240v 30amp circuit for a subpanel and that should let you run several regular 15/20amp 120volt circuits.

Around here, I see lots of houses where people do the work themselves (easy to tell, it's a very sloppy job as most DIY's never nail down the cables properly). Makes you wonder.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Do whatever asbestos removal that needs to be done yourself. The contractor can't
legally do it without permits, but you as the home owner, can do whatever you want.


I'm not sure about the laws in CA, but while he may be able to remove it himself, he should make sure he's doing so in a safe manner and the tricky part is actually getting rid of it properly as I believe the EPA considers it hazardous waste, you can't just throw it out in the trash. I believe that part may be a federal law.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359

I'm not sure about the laws in CA, but while he may be able to remove it himself, he should make sure he's doing so in a safe manner and the tricky part is actually getting rid of it properly as I believe the EPA considers it hazardous waste, you can't just throw it out in the trash. I believe that part may be a federal law.


There's no telling what kind of disposal fee he'd have to pay to dispose of it
properly. I'd cut it up into 2ft x 2ft sections and double bag it in trash liners.

 

[Chris142]

The wires from the House would need to be above ground. Prolly run along the eves somehow. The curant wires to the garage are in the cement. We dug down and found them, 2 small wires going right into the slab. Ill try to get pics tomorrow

 

[wrcsixeight]

Asbestos is ugly stuff, but I believe there are those that cry Asbestos!, cause it is good for the trade.

I've been doing some finish work for this one house that wanted some new HVAC lines installed in distant corners of the house that were inadequate. They were told that he preexisting vents were asbestos lined, and a few days later the this asbestos removal service came in with guys in Tyvec suits and respirators that they rarely ever bothered to wear when nobody was looking, and ripped out a portion of the supposed asbestos lined Hvac piping, Yet left a portion which I informed the owners of.

The guys came back the next day when the owners were not home and in regular street clothes removed what was left, and if it indeed was asbestos insulation, Then I know exactly what it looks like, because there was pieces of it all over the place by this "professional asbestos removal company" which charged a ridiculous amount for half a days work.
I was fully suspicious of thes guys, and guarded my tools and the homeowners tools from what I perceived to be total crooks. They were entirely nervous by my presence, which increased my evil eye toward them.

You could very well have asbestos shingles, But I think many just yell the 'A' word, for job security.

Get a second opinion. Guys that have enough work will find excuses to not to the PITA job

 

[Pop_Rivit]

The asbestos on the house is fine until you start to disturb it. Once you begin to disturb it the fibers will break free and create a hazard. The asbestos/mesothelioma link is clear and indisputable-anyone telling you different is giving you extremely stupid advice. Anyone working with asbestos who isn't property protected is just as stupid. Mesothelioma is an ugly cancer, and not a death that anyone would want.

It's an older home, and it's typical of older homes to have a lot of jury-rigging done throughout the years. You really only have two choices-either fix what's there and fix it correctly, or continue to jury rig and come up with something that you can make work. Since you can't afford to fix it correctly, in my opinion your best option is a dedicated generator set up outside your garage/workshop. This will allow you to run your compressor, welder and power tools without much fuss.

And the obvious question that needs to be asked-since you have 4 vehicles in your signature, and it's only you and your mom living in the house, wouldn't it make sense to sell one or two so you'll have the money to fix things correctly? Or are you not willing to part with your toys in order to make the wiring safe and up to code?

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Do whatever asbestos removal that needs to be done yourself. The contractor can't
legally do it without permits, but you as the home owner, can do whatever you want.


That's not true, especially in states like California. Unpermitted work will be a significant liability when the day comes that you want to sell a property. All it takes is a nosy neighbor or an inspector who happens to be passing by to have the job shut down. That goes for both contractors and homeowners.

And just as an FYI-it was unpermitted work (like you're advocating) that caused his problem in the first place. If it would have originally been done to code it wouldn't be an issue now, would it?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
Asbestos is ugly stuff, but I believe there are those that cry Asbestos!, cause it is good for the trade.

I've been doing some finish work for this one house that wanted some new HVAC lines installed in distant corners of the house that were inadequate. They were told that he preexisting vents were asbestos lined, and a few days later the this asbestos removal service came in with guys in Tyvec suits and respirators that they rarely ever bothered to wear when nobody was looking, and ripped out a portion of the supposed asbestos lined Hvac piping, Yet left a portion which I informed the owners of.

The guys came back the next day when the owners were not home and in regular street clothes removed what was left, and if it indeed was asbestos insulation, Then I know exactly what it looks like, because there was pieces of it all over the place by this "professional asbestos removal company" which charged a ridiculous amount for half a days work.
I was fully suspicious of thes guys, and guarded my tools and the homeowners tools from what I perceived to be total crooks. They were entirely nervous by my presence, which increased my evil eye toward them.

You could very well have asbestos shingles, But I think many just yell the 'A' word, for job security.

Get a second opinion. Guys that have enough work will find excuses to not to the PITA job


Good points. I'd get another opinion.

 

[Chris142]

Oh its definitely asbestos siding. I knew about it years ago but it never dawned on me that it would be a problem.

I use all my toys! I use my truck as a truck, jeep for a daily driver in winter,klr daily summer driver and the quad everything else. Also have a 5the car that's mom's that she's still able to get into.

 

[Chris142]

 

[Wolf359]

A second opinion doesn't really help, what you really need to do is to send off a piece to a lab to have it tested. That's the only real way to know. Sometimes you can get the name of a local lab by asking the asbestos guys. They may be licensed by the state so you might be able to find a list from the state.

As for your picture, I wonder if there's a main shut off underneath that panel that's underneath the meter. Also I see a 6x outlet on the outside, I wonder if that's a GFCI outlet it's plugged into.

As for your two circuits that are already there, are they 120 or 240? If they're 120, maybe convert the 120 to a 240 and then split them back into 120 in a subpanel, I think you can share the same neutral wire.