Hot climate ?w-

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by y_p_w


I'm guessing you could probably use a 0W-30 or a 5W-30 without issue. However, I don't see why not just stick with the manufacturer's recommendations. The most important thing in hot climates isn't the oil but the cooling system. Honda V6s don't typically have oil coolers standard, do they?


So you are saying 5w30 produces a hotter engine and/or hotter oil, than 0w20?

 

[JLTD]

Funny thing is, ALL the previous answers (page 1) are correct.

CAFE is involved. 0w-20 should do just fine. So would 10w-30 (and depending on overseas manuals, an even thicker oil might be ok).

0w-20 will give an (imperceptible to you and me) increase in fuel economy.

Synthetic is the way to go.


Of course in the name of science, we wouldn't complain if you ran several different grades and compared the UOAs.

edit:

Originally Posted by noclutch
Good stuff guys and thanks!
Yea I have at times been a dump what the filler cap says on it in kinda guy, until I started reading and thinking about it LOL

Per above- "Also - the Honda VCM system seems to have issues with sludge that didn't seem to be an issue when 0W-20 became the recommended oil, or if something like Mobil 1 was used" That's an interesting engine specific consideration. Fortunately, I'm using a VCM Muzzler so maybe a moot point consideration for me. But noted that Honda maybe chose 0w for this reason in addition to CAFE.

But the engine does seem to be a bit noisier than I would expect, though nothing scary sounding or malfunctioning in any way. Has 40k on it.

Looking like I might be streamlining my oil stock to 5w-30 for everything in my little fleet though they're all over the map engine wise!
( '15 3.5 Acura, '18 3.5 ecoboost F150, '07 5.4 triton Expo, '09 5.3 LY5 ? Chevy)

Hate running to the garage and finding the "wrong" oil sitting there for the change of the day!


Seems like 5w-30 is the way to go....here on BITOG I have seen all those vehicles run on it with good results.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by y_p_w


I'm guessing you could probably use a 0W-30 or a 5W-30 without issue. However, I don't see why not just stick with the manufacturer's recommendations. The most important thing in hot climates isn't the oil but the cooling system. Honda V6s don't typically have oil coolers standard, do they?


So you are saying 5w30 produces a hotter engine and/or hotter oil, than 0w20?

I'm saying that unless one is beating the heck out of a vehicle (like track days or towing) the cooling system should be adequate to keep the motor oil from overheating such that a "thinner" oil isn't really a concern. I get that old recommendations used to be for stuff like 20W-50 on the premise that when the oil temps went well beyond 100ºC that the viscosity would still be adequate even when beating up an engine.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by noclutch
Per above- "Also - the Honda VCM system seems to have issues with sludge that didn't seem to be an issue when 0W-20 became the recommended oil, or if something like Mobil 1 was used" That's an interesting engine specific consideration. Fortunately, I'm using a VCM Muzzler so maybe a moot point consideration for me. But noted that Honda maybe chose 0w for this reason in addition to CAFE.

I was hearing about the issue when some were using basic (read "conventional") 5W-20 and going the full length of the oil-life monitor. Didn't seem to be an issue with more frequent oil changes or when the oil was switched to something that resisted sludging.

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted by blupupher
What problem exactly are you trying to fix?

0w-20 has been shown to not be a problem in the hottest of climates. 5w-20 works fine also.


0w-20 and 5w-20 are not a "problem". No one is claiming the OP's engine will blow up.

0w-20 and 5w-20 are not necessarily "optimal" either in FL.

5w-30 is a perfect choice.

 

[noclutch]

YPW- thanks and I hear ya on the/my slight phobia of "thinner". The Toyota -16 and -8 specs freak me out. But I'll play the old man card here. LOL

JLTD- thanks for the feedback. Regarding 5w-30 for all, if my UOA from my EcoBoost looks good here in 6 months or so, I might just put the Rotella Gas Truck in all my vehicles. LOL

Would the Acura have an allergic reaction to truck oil and think it's a Ridgeline? ...‚

Yea, just went with it on my F150 because it's Ford -B1 certified and I usually use SOPUS stuff anyways.

 

[Snagglefoot]

The manufacturers have discovered the pleasant side effect of getting that 0w oil circulating to the camshaft quicker, so they do not bother to tell you to use any other weight.

Three Mobil oils:

Kv 40:

5w30 72.8 Cst
5w20 48.3 Cst
0w20 42.6 Cst

Keep in mind, all these viscosities are thicker at 40 C than a 40 weight oil is at 100 C which would be about 14 Cst.

 

[noclutch]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
The manufacturers have discovered the pleasant side effect of getting that 0w oil circulating to the camshaft quicker, so they do not bother to tell you to use any other weight.


Yea that's the intriguing part.
Maybe someone has a link comparing viscosity of 0w and 5w at engine start up ambient temperatures of say 32 and 75 degrees?

( as the -20 or 30 wouldn't come into play till the engines warm. Or would it?🤔)

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by noclutch
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
The manufacturers have discovered the pleasant side effect of getting that 0w oil circulating to the camshaft quicker, so they do not bother to tell you to use any other weight.


Yea that's the intriguing part.
Maybe someone has a link comparing viscosity of 0w and 5w at engine start up ambient temperatures of say 32 and 75 degrees?

( as the -20 or 30 wouldn't come into play till the engines warm. Or would it?🤔)

Honestly - the system that we have to describe multi-vis oil is ancient and possibly outdated. But it would be difficult to go to another one at this point. 0W describes performance at a ridiculously cold subzero temperature. The higher number describes viscosity at 100ºC. Then there's everything in between.

I use Mobil 1 0W-40 in my WRX. My wife's 2002 Civic gets Chevron 5W-20. Guess which one is thinner at startup in pretty much any ambient condition I'll see in my neighborhood? I don't even think the 0W-40 is going to be lower viscosity until somewhere around freezing temps (or maybe even lower).

 

[noclutch]

YPW- yes it seems the viscosity ratings on the label are limited to just the extremes- deep freeze and full operating temps, and say nothing about the real world start ups and the first 10-20 minutes of driving. Yes - antiquated it seems for multi viscosity oils.

I'd like to see graphs of these multi-vis products when being warmed from Arctic cold through 212. Wonder how non-linear those lines would be??🤔. Fun to compare your 5w-20 and 0w-40 side by side.

Snaglefoot- good stuff to ponder. Thanks.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by noclutch
YPW- yes it seems the viscosity ratings on the label are limited to just the extremes- deep freeze and full operating temps, and say nothing about the real world start ups and the first 10-20 minutes of driving.

Well those are the two most important, the cold weather rating (W) ensures the oil will flow to the pickup in the expected ambient temperatures. Yes that is an "extreme" but the other end - the operational temperature and viscosity is not an extreme, it is there to ensure the oil has the appropriate viscosity for operation.

In between is just that, in between. It will never be optimal for operation. Automakers are interested in that regime (generally making sure it is as thin as possible) for fuel economy purposes, but it will always be too thick to be optimal. Are you suggesting that there are some oils that are too thin between startup and operation?

 

[noclutch]

"Are you suggesting that there are some oils that are too thin between startup and operation?"

Maybe?? Disclaimer- I'm fairly new to BITOG, home mechanic, and medicine by education, and still learning a lot here! So thanks to all of you guys for humoring the newb.

But yea. I'd like to see some viscosity graphs of multi vis in ambient temp through fully warm. As a previous poster mentioned comparing his 5-20 and 0-40 and the obvious difference when pouring at ambient temps.

I totally get the thin oil gets there faster thing, but might there be an optimal "ramp up" curve through the temperature ranges? Conversely, a sub optimal?

The cSt @ 40c as seen on some UOAs seems like valuable info some is might like to see on the label. ðŸ‘ðŸ»

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by noclutch
I totally get the thin oil gets there faster thing, but might there be an optimal "ramp up" curve through the temperature ranges? Conversely, a sub optimal?

No, a thicker oil gets there faster if you are referring to an optimal operating temperature. Thicker oils heat up faster than thinner ones. The reason a manufacturer may wish for a thinner oil is for less drag.

 

[noclutch]

No I was referring to thinner oils getting through small critical orifices with more ease than thicker oils at start up.

But might that start up low viscosity oil not heat quickly enough*

For example an 0w-20 when say the engine is still early to mid cycle of warming and no where near operational, has it in thickenedtoo much? Dunno if that makes sense. Need to chew on this. LOL

Again back to that cST@40 line if thinking. Or 20,40,60,80

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by noclutch
No I was referring to thinner oils getting through small critical orifices with more ease than thicker oils at start up.

No, they get through the same. As long as the oil is pumpable the pump will push through the same volume regardless of the viscosity.

If you are using an oil at a temperature that is too low for the W rating it will not flow to the pickup and will not be pumped at all. Anywhere else above that temperature it will be pumped.

BTW the W rating is virtually meaningless to pumping ability above freezing. Above 0F anything with a 10W, 5W and 0W will be pumped. Above around -20F anything with a 0W and a 5W will be similar as well. Only below approximately -30F or lower will a 0W oil be guaranteed to be thinner. Above that any of the other oils could possibly be thinner.

 

[PimTac]

Today's modern engines use a variety of methods to warm up and get to operating temperature quickly.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Today's modern engines use a variety of methods to warm up and get to operating temperature quickly.

Less modern ones too. Even my old BMW delays upshifts to warm up more quickly.

 

[noclutch]

Fascinatingly educational! Thank you for your effortsðŸ‘ðŸ»

So for example for me here in Florida, there really shouldn't be a need to use a 0w at all as 5w or even 10w as some have said, should work just fine.
The Eagles would be back together before is was 0 one morning!

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted by noclutch
No I was referring to thinner oils getting through small critical orifices with more ease than thicker oils at start up.

But might that start up low viscosity oil not heat quickly enough*

For example an 0w-20 when say the engine is still early to mid cycle of warming and no where near operational, has it in thickenedtoo much? Dunno if that makes sense. Need to chew on this. LOL

Again back to that cST@40 line if thinking. Or 20,40,60,80

I "THINK" I know which direction you're going here. Doesn't the engine have to be at optimal operating temperature for the 20 weight to be at its peak efficiency? I too need to chew on this.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by noclutch
YPW- yes it seems the viscosity ratings on the label are limited to just the extremes- deep freeze and full operating temps, and say nothing about the real world start ups and the first 10-20 minutes of driving.

Well those are the two most important, the cold weather rating (W) ensures the oil will flow to the pickup in the expected ambient temperatures. Yes that is an "extreme" but the other end - the operational temperature and viscosity is not an extreme, it is there to ensure the oil has the appropriate viscosity for operation.

In between is just that, in between. It will never be optimal for operation. Automakers are interested in that regime (generally making sure it is as thin as possible) for fuel economy purposes, but it will always be too thick to be optimal. Are you suggesting that there are some oils that are too thin between startup and operation?

I'm not saying that. I'm just thinking that everything is shoehorned into these two numbers.

My understanding is that a typical 0W-20 is going to have lower parasitic losses than a typical 5W-20 - even if it's only a test at operating temperatures.

I remember one clam that possibly the ideal when 5W-30 or 10W-30 was specified would be a SAE 30 along with a block heater to get the oil warm before every start. In that case the oil is going to be at an ideal temp for startup.

Also - there are a whole slew of considerations. My dad's 1996 Buick Regal with the 3800 Series II engine specified only 10W-30 unless the ambient temperatures were under maybe 50 deg F. I suppose the rationale was that 5W-30 oils at the time were too volatile and would get cooked. However, I'm thinking an API SN 5W-30 would probably be fine, and even something like Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntec 5W-30 in the 90s would have been fine. But they didn't want to complicate things to the point the owner had to think of anything other than use 10W-30 if it would always be above 0 deg F.