Honda K24 Timing Chain Replacement

[The Critic]

The timing cover and lower oil pan on my wife's 07 Accord K24 is starting to seep in a few spots. It has 155k. I have also heard timing chain rattle on a few occasions.

When I remove the timing cover, my plan is to replace the timing chain and tensioner with dealer parts. Is there any reason to also replace the guides if they are not worn excessively? Although it would be nice to start fresh with all new parts, keep in mind that this job is not particularly difficult or time-consuming to do.

#12 and #13 are very inexpensive from the dealer, but the cost of #11 is almost the same cost as the chain itself!

Melling sells #11 for $34.79 and it is from Taiwan. Cloyes is $66.79 and the origin is unknown. Dealer is $150.39 msrp. Any recommendations on which to choose, if at all?

 

[RooflessVW]

My history with German cars tells me that if you don't replace a chain guides while you're staring right at it, even if it looks brand new, it will disintegrate before the next oil change.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

If you don't buy the guides, the ones on the car will be torn. If you do buy new guides, the old ones will look brand new

The Cloyes is also Taiwan and probably the same as Melling's chain.

 

[hemitom]

when you're that deep into a job ! change them.

 

[bullwinkle]

I was considering doing the opposite on the 4.6 MGM-replace the plastic guides & tensioners, leave the chains alone (since there aren't any obvious issues other than leaking tensioners).

 

[bdcardinal]

I was considering doing the opposite on the 4.6 MGM-replace the plastic guides & tensioners, leave the chains alone (since there aren't any obvious issues other than leaking tensioners).

We don't sell a lot of the 4.6L chains anymore. Some of the old ones come out looking really shiny like they have been polished.

 

[bdcardinal]

If you don't buy the guides, the ones on the car will be torn. If you do buy new guides, the old ones will look brand new

The Cloyes is also Taiwan and probably the same as Melling's chain.

This is my feeling as well. I went to do the conversion on my Mustang from a stretch belt to a regular one for the AC over Thanksgiving weekend. I got to the point of taking the hoses off when I realized I didn't have the main serpentine belt and cursed my parts person (me) for their ineptness. It all went back together right then because I didn't want to look at it anymore.

 

[Passport1]

Always a tough decision:

If you want to test your mechanical prowess and don't mind doing it maybe twice, go cheap. Especially if you could sell it in the near future.
If you are going to keep the Accord and nurse it to 300K replace everything and go OEM.
If you are cheap and lazy like me, secure the status quo by telling the base camp commander all '07 Accords sound like that.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

When I did mine due to stretch, I replaced the chain, tensioner, vtec solenoid, guides and seals in the timing cover. My guides looked completely fine, although I had 200ish on it, and the chain stretched enough to be out of time.

 

[mightymousetech]

At the dealer, we always replace the chain, the guides, all sprockets plus the oil pump chain, sprockets and tensioner. Rattle at startup is usually not the chain itself but the VTC actuator, and sometimes even the oil pump chain tensioner.

Do it once, do it right.

 

[atikovi]

The timing cover and lower oil pan on my wife's 07 Accord K24 is starting to seep in a few spots. It has 155k.

Why not just replace those gaskets and call it a day? A 155K Honda shouldn't need chains unless it wasn't maintained and starts throwing codes. Personally I wouldn't bother even doing that just for some seepage. Maybe change oil with the HM variety if not already using it.

 

[The Critic]

At the dealer, we always replace the chain, the guides, all sprockets plus the oil pump chain, sprockets and tensioner. Rattle at startup is usually not the chain itself but the VTC actuator, and sometimes even the oil pump chain tensioner.

Do it once, do it right.

I am familiar with the VTC actuator rattle, but this one sounds more like chain slap. Since the oil pan is coming off anyway, replacing the oil pump chain tensioner doesn't sound like a bad idea.

Does the oil pump chain actually stretch? From my limited experience, usually it is only the long primary chains that have issues with wear. The secondary chains usually don't wear.

Since this job is for my own car, I don't mind going back into it later. Just trying to strike a reasonable balance here.

 

[mightymousetech]

I am familiar with the VTC actuator rattle, but this one sounds more like chain slap. Since the oil pan is coming off anyway, replacing the oil pump chain tensioner doesn't sound like a bad idea.

Does the oil pump chain actually stretch? From my limited experience, usually it is only the long primary chains that have issues with wear. The secondary chains usually don't wear.

Since this job is for my own car, I don't mind going back into it later. Just trying to strike a reasonable balance here.

The oil pump chain almost never “stretches”, but, believe it or not, often found it seized. Which breaks the tensioner.

 

[The Critic]

The oil pump chain almost never “stretches”, but, believe it or not, often found it seized. Which breaks the tensioner.

Very interesting. I guess I will replace it then. Does the oil pump have to be removed in order to "walk" the chain on, or can the chain be replaced by simply unbolting the sprocket?

 

[The Critic]

Parts list so far:

1. Hondabond Ht
   $10.06
   Part # 08718-0004
2. O-Ring, Chain Case
   $4.82
   Part # 91302-PNA-004
3. O-Ring
   $1.94
   Part # 91333-PNC-006
4. Oil Seal (43X58X7) (Frg-Nok)
   $4.87
   Part # 91212-R1B-A01
5. Tensioner Assembly, Cam Chain
   $53.04
   Part # 14510-RAA-A01
6. Chain (176L) (Daido)
   $108.34
   Part # 14401-R40-A01
7. 2002-2011 Honda Gasket Cylinder Head Cover
   $10.31
   Part # 12341-RTA-000
8. Camshaft Lock Pin Seat
   $13.19
   Part # 07AAB-RWCA120
9. 2007 2008 Honda Fit - Filter Assembly Spool Valve
   $4.39
   Part # 15815-RAA-A02
10. Oil Seal, Control Valve
    $12.28
    Part # 15832-RAA-A01
11. Guide, Balancer Shaft Chain
    $13.94
    Part # 13460-PNA-004
12. Tensioner, Balancer Shaft Chain
    $114.51
    Part # 13450-RAA-A02
13. Chain (62L)
    $47.28
    Part # 13441-PNA-004

 

[dishdude]

I would do the dealer guide, especially since I'm sure you can arrange a discount off MSRP.

 

[mightymousetech]

Very interesting. I guess I will replace it then. Does the oil pump have to be removed in order to "walk" the chain on, or can the chain be replaced by simply unbolting the sprocket?

Pump removal not required. Just unbolt sprocket. Be careful not letting it spin with everything removed as the balance shafts run off it. One turn off means balance shafts will be 180 degrees off and significant vibration.

 

[JimPghPA]

Check the prices for original parts from OEMPartSource.com

I checked OEMPartSource for number 12 item on the list:

12) Tensioner, Balancer Shaft Chain
Part # 13450-RAA-A02


And the price is $108.53 at OEMPartSource. So, if you want original parts at a slightly lower than dealer price and you place a large enough order, then even with shipping you might save a few dollars with them.

 

[The Critic]

Why not just replace those gaskets and call it a day? A 155K Honda shouldn't need chains unless it wasn't maintained and starts throwing codes. Personally I wouldn't bother even doing that just for some seepage. Maybe change oil with the HM variety if not already using it.

It is very minor seepage at this point.

I usually have to degrease every 3-4 months. This picture was taken about a month after the last degrease.

It is just more convenient for me to deal with this now versus next year. Have some changes coming and will have less free time in the future.

 

[2010Civic]

Check the prices for original parts from OEMPartSource.com

I checked OEMPartSource for number 12 item on the list:

12) Tensioner, Balancer Shaft Chain
Part # 13450-RAA-A02


And the price is $108.53 at OEMPartSource. So, if you want original parts at a slightly lower than dealer price and you place a large enough order, then even with shipping you might save a few dollars with them.

OEMpartsource has bad reviews on Google. I've always had good luck with cheaperhondaparts.com