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Oz will have to up their visc to 50Wallaby-70+ just to manage the technical correction and restore balance.
Honda has developed a 0W-10
- Thread starter CATERHAM
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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
BTW, a likely candidate for the oil would have to be the new Honda Insight. So if there are any BITOG members who are planning on buying this car a FF used oil analysis would be neat.
I bought a 2010 Insight for my wife four months ago. She has about 4500 miles on it already and the OLM shows 60% left. The sales-drone said we ought to have about 5000 miles on the clock at the 15% OLM point, when the OM recommends changing the oil. So it looks like we're doing better than expected, although I suppose the OLM could start dropping in a non-linear fashion as the oil gets "used up". This is our first car with an OLM. I've already bought some Mobil 1 0W-20 for the oil change. When it does come time to change the oil, I'll see if any other BITOGer has done a used oil analysis on the FF. If not, I'll do one.
BTW, a likely candidate for the oil would have to be the new Honda Insight. So if there are any BITOG members who are planning on buying this car a FF used oil analysis would be neat.
I bought a 2010 Insight for my wife four months ago. She has about 4500 miles on it already and the OLM shows 60% left. The sales-drone said we ought to have about 5000 miles on the clock at the 15% OLM point, when the OM recommends changing the oil. So it looks like we're doing better than expected, although I suppose the OLM could start dropping in a non-linear fashion as the oil gets "used up". This is our first car with an OLM. I've already bought some Mobil 1 0W-20 for the oil change. When it does come time to change the oil, I'll see if any other BITOGer has done a used oil analysis on the FF. If not, I'll do one.
i went to japan last year first time, couldn't believe how small most of the cars are, like less than 2,000 lbs and probably 80hp. they could probably run it
makes a Element look like an SUV. i did see some larger foreign cars like a couple Cayennes, BMWs, mercedes, older 4Runners but gas is $6+ a gallon
makes a Element look like an SUV. i did see some larger foreign cars like a couple Cayennes, BMWs, mercedes, older 4Runners but gas is $6+ a gallon
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Oz will have to up their visc to 50Wallaby-70+ just to manage the technical correction and restore balance.
Ozzy's think us N.Americans are just plan nuts to run 30wt let alone a 20wt. A 10wt is too scary to contemplate.
Who would've thought motor oil would have such a cultural component!
Oz will have to up their visc to 50Wallaby-70+ just to manage the technical correction and restore balance.
Ozzy's think us N.Americans are just plan nuts to run 30wt let alone a 20wt. A 10wt is too scary to contemplate.
Who would've thought motor oil would have such a cultural component!
As I work for AHMC, they are using 0w-20 pretty much throughout their lineup on the V6 engines. A few of the 4 Cyl engines from Japan are using 5w30 still. My dealer also has Toyota & Lexus franchises and they are going to 0W-20 real soon if they have not started yet. 0W-20 is coming as CAFE has higher standards and I would not put the 0W-10 out of the picture. Engines are designed with tighter tolerances and thinner oil flows better which carries heat away. On a good note, as oil drops viscosity the base oil has to be more robust as in semi-synthetic or full synthetic. This also increases the interval change which the manufacturers like as they can brag less maintenance required. Ford R&D just increased the capacity in a 2011 model to obtain a longer 10,000 mile interval change which they are planning to market.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Oz will have to up their visc to 50Wallaby-70+ just to manage the technical correction and restore balance.
LOL...they will just convert the entire country to Brad Penn Nitro 70w...
Oz will have to up their visc to 50Wallaby-70+ just to manage the technical correction and restore balance.
LOL...they will just convert the entire country to Brad Penn Nitro 70w...
marco246 cool, we'll look forward to that UOA.
BTW, why did you buy Mobil 1 0W-20 and not Honda's own 0W-20; was it cheaper?
BTW, why did you buy Mobil 1 0W-20 and not Honda's own 0W-20; was it cheaper?
Im way behing the eight ball here with my 0W30.
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Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Im way behing the eight ball here with my 0W30.
Yeah ..you knuckle dragging throwback relic
..or..
Still a wishy-washy fence sitter, huh? No commitment to anything one way or the other
Im way behing the eight ball here with my 0W30.
Yeah ..you knuckle dragging throwback relic
..or..
Still a wishy-washy fence sitter, huh? No commitment to anything one way or the other
Michael whereyou been Tyota had engines made entirely of Ceramics plasticsinthe 1980's the problem was surviveability. In front end collisions in FWD vechiles the cermaics where brittle and would ofen crack. If you could prevent collissions they would already have brought them to market years ago!
We are still seeing technology that was initialy develope between 1940-1970's other then the electronics that are controlling things.Their is a ton of engine technology that is not going to be seen until it is needed. Cost is the big thing.......People have to be willing to pay the premium for the technology. Cars and trucks are already far too expensive....When you look at the declineinthe dollar, the steep increase in vechile prices and the decline of wages and jobs in the USA soon few will be able to afford a new vechile ever!
Example my 1986 4Runner is still on the raod as a daily driver and still 4 wheeling on weekends. The cost new to my Dad on that 1986 Toyota 4Runner was $15,000 prior to financeing. It had all the options like wheel and tire package,premium sound,tilt steering etc.............In fact it had 31x10.50's on it OEM. Today you would be hard pressed to touch one for less then $38,000 and the mid $40K range is most common in the last 5 or so years!
On top of that most jobs do not pay as well as they did in the 1980's to 1990's.So most techology is mostly of the control variety or thingsw that can be done with Moores Law..... with elecrtronics. THe internal combustion engine ahs changed little since the 1960's with reguard to design....Some of the best head and piston designs came from the 1960's and are not used today due mostly due to machining cost or emissions mostly cold trottle snap.
If they go to smaller turbo charged engines, high reving light weight turbo diesels,direct injection, pre-cobustion chamber's or plasma combustion or laser ignition who is going to be able to afford these vechiles? Maybe the EPA and Obamaha can give us all one on the tax payers dime?
We are still seeing technology that was initialy develope between 1940-1970's other then the electronics that are controlling things.Their is a ton of engine technology that is not going to be seen until it is needed. Cost is the big thing.......People have to be willing to pay the premium for the technology. Cars and trucks are already far too expensive....When you look at the declineinthe dollar, the steep increase in vechile prices and the decline of wages and jobs in the USA soon few will be able to afford a new vechile ever!
Example my 1986 4Runner is still on the raod as a daily driver and still 4 wheeling on weekends. The cost new to my Dad on that 1986 Toyota 4Runner was $15,000 prior to financeing. It had all the options like wheel and tire package,premium sound,tilt steering etc.............In fact it had 31x10.50's on it OEM. Today you would be hard pressed to touch one for less then $38,000 and the mid $40K range is most common in the last 5 or so years!
On top of that most jobs do not pay as well as they did in the 1980's to 1990's.So most techology is mostly of the control variety or thingsw that can be done with Moores Law..... with elecrtronics. THe internal combustion engine ahs changed little since the 1960's with reguard to design....Some of the best head and piston designs came from the 1960's and are not used today due mostly due to machining cost or emissions mostly cold trottle snap.
If they go to smaller turbo charged engines, high reving light weight turbo diesels,direct injection, pre-cobustion chamber's or plasma combustion or laser ignition who is going to be able to afford these vechiles? Maybe the EPA and Obamaha can give us all one on the tax payers dime?
With reguards to materials though it would work great bu to what end? We have seen what happens when coposite linings fail and even when things like nickel-sil fail. So really when you look at what has been done with aluminium with steel liners or compacted graphite etc.....I think ceramics are outother then maybe limited use as a coating for some heat reasons or for parts like cam lobes for rollerized apps. etc.......
If a company can absorb or pass the cost on matalic materials and aloys are best and I will explain way. When you use better materials you can use less of them. FOr instance I can make a stainless steel rockershaft that weighs les then an aluminum and is infinately stronger but the cost is much higher. For an after market example look at Crowlers Stainless Steel rocker arms compared to their aluminum versions. If you did this for every part you could drasticly reduce the weight of an engine and transmission but few could afford it.
Like wise most steel being used in cars oday is recylced stuff and is not very high grade stuff by todays standards. If they used newer higher grades of steel they could reduce weight by 30% and improve rigidity and torsional stiffness etc.....Again cost!!!!!!
If a company can absorb or pass the cost on matalic materials and aloys are best and I will explain way. When you use better materials you can use less of them. FOr instance I can make a stainless steel rockershaft that weighs les then an aluminum and is infinately stronger but the cost is much higher. For an after market example look at Crowlers Stainless Steel rocker arms compared to their aluminum versions. If you did this for every part you could drasticly reduce the weight of an engine and transmission but few could afford it.
Like wise most steel being used in cars oday is recylced stuff and is not very high grade stuff by todays standards. If they used newer higher grades of steel they could reduce weight by 30% and improve rigidity and torsional stiffness etc.....Again cost!!!!!!
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
marco246 cool, we'll look forward to that UOA.
BTW, why did you buy Mobil 1 0W-20 and not Honda's own 0W-20; was it cheaper?
Caterham,
I just made an assumption, possibly wrong, that Mobil 1 0W-20 at $7 per quart at W-M would be cheaper than whatever the price at the Honda dealer is for Honda 0W-20. By the way, just checked the OLM on the Insight and it has fallen to 50% at 4600 miles. Apparently the OLM has 10% increments until it reaches 15%, then it goes to 5% increments. So I'm a little closer to an oil change than I thought.
marco246 cool, we'll look forward to that UOA.
BTW, why did you buy Mobil 1 0W-20 and not Honda's own 0W-20; was it cheaper?
Caterham,
I just made an assumption, possibly wrong, that Mobil 1 0W-20 at $7 per quart at W-M would be cheaper than whatever the price at the Honda dealer is for Honda 0W-20. By the way, just checked the OLM on the Insight and it has fallen to 50% at 4600 miles. Apparently the OLM has 10% increments until it reaches 15%, then it goes to 5% increments. So I'm a little closer to an oil change than I thought.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
That's it then. I'm ponying up and having Bruce blend up a 55 gallon drum of this stuff (assuming he's done with tinkering). I assure you that Honda OEM oil will cost a fortune and make Bruce's blend a very competitive product.
Glad jeep is still running LOL
I think this was a SM will have to look it up.
do you need more?
bruce
That's it then. I'm ponying up and having Bruce blend up a 55 gallon drum of this stuff (assuming he's done with tinkering). I assure you that Honda OEM oil will cost a fortune and make Bruce's blend a very competitive product.
Glad jeep is still running LOL
I think this was a SM will have to look it up.
do you need more?
bruce
Originally Posted By: marco246
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
marco246 cool, we'll look forward to that UOA.
BTW, why did you buy Mobil 1 0W-20 and not Honda's own 0W-20; was it cheaper?
Caterham,
I just made an assumption, possibly wrong, that Mobil 1 0W-20 at $7 per quart at W-M would be cheaper than whatever the price at the Honda dealer is for Honda 0W-20. By the way, just checked the OLM on the Insight and it has fallen to 50% at 4600 miles. Apparently the OLM has 10% increments until it reaches 15%, then it goes to 5% increments. So I'm a little closer to an oil change than I thought.
It's cheaper than Mobil 1 products here and Toyota's 0W-20 which has a very similar formulation (i.e., ultra high VI, ton of moly etc.), is cheaper still. But you're in Hawaii so availability may be a problem.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
marco246 cool, we'll look forward to that UOA.
BTW, why did you buy Mobil 1 0W-20 and not Honda's own 0W-20; was it cheaper?
Caterham,
I just made an assumption, possibly wrong, that Mobil 1 0W-20 at $7 per quart at W-M would be cheaper than whatever the price at the Honda dealer is for Honda 0W-20. By the way, just checked the OLM on the Insight and it has fallen to 50% at 4600 miles. Apparently the OLM has 10% increments until it reaches 15%, then it goes to 5% increments. So I'm a little closer to an oil change than I thought.
It's cheaper than Mobil 1 products here and Toyota's 0W-20 which has a very similar formulation (i.e., ultra high VI, ton of moly etc.), is cheaper still. But you're in Hawaii so availability may be a problem.
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
I'd run it in my Crown Vic.
Please let me know how it turns out!
I didn't say that I will, but that I would. I literally have a 5 year stash of synthetic oil. I won't be buying anything new for a long time.
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
I'd run it in my Crown Vic.
Please let me know how it turns out!
I didn't say that I will, but that I would. I literally have a 5 year stash of synthetic oil. I won't be buying anything new for a long time.
Part of an oil being accepted for CAFE tests is broad availability.
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Originally Posted By: bruce381
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
That's it then. I'm ponying up and having Bruce blend up a 55 gallon drum of this stuff (assuming he's done with tinkering). I assure you that Honda OEM oil will cost a fortune and make Bruce's blend a very competitive product.
Glad jeep is still running LOL
I think this was a SM will have to look it up.
do you need more?
bruce
Could be SM ..I thought SL, but could be wrong.
I think I still have somewhere around 2 sumps left. I should be at 10k by Spring for some contemporary endurance testing. If it still looks good ..on to summer.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
That's it then. I'm ponying up and having Bruce blend up a 55 gallon drum of this stuff (assuming he's done with tinkering). I assure you that Honda OEM oil will cost a fortune and make Bruce's blend a very competitive product.
Glad jeep is still running LOL
I think this was a SM will have to look it up.
do you need more?
bruce
Could be SM ..I thought SL, but could be wrong.
I think I still have somewhere around 2 sumps left. I should be at 10k by Spring for some contemporary endurance testing. If it still looks good ..on to summer.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: bruce381
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
That's it then. I'm ponying up and having Bruce blend up a 55 gallon drum of this stuff (assuming he's done with tinkering). I assure you that Honda OEM oil will cost a fortune and make Bruce's blend a very competitive product.
Glad jeep is still running LOL
I think this was a SM will have to look it up.
do you need more?
bruce
Could be SM ..I thought SL, but could be wrong.
I think I still have somewhere around 2 sumps left. I should be at 10k by Spring for some contemporary endurance testing. If it still looks good ..on to summer.
Gary you mentioned in your UOA post that the pure component cost (no labor, overhead, shipping or profit etc) was $125/5 gal or $1400/55 gal drum.
Sounds like it would be hard to compete with a $4.5 to $7/qt retail price that Honda would likely charge; price I would assume to be no different than their current 0W-20.
Originally Posted By: bruce381
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
That's it then. I'm ponying up and having Bruce blend up a 55 gallon drum of this stuff (assuming he's done with tinkering). I assure you that Honda OEM oil will cost a fortune and make Bruce's blend a very competitive product.
Glad jeep is still running LOL
I think this was a SM will have to look it up.
do you need more?
bruce
Could be SM ..I thought SL, but could be wrong.
I think I still have somewhere around 2 sumps left. I should be at 10k by Spring for some contemporary endurance testing. If it still looks good ..on to summer.
Gary you mentioned in your UOA post that the pure component cost (no labor, overhead, shipping or profit etc) was $125/5 gal or $1400/55 gal drum.
Sounds like it would be hard to compete with a $4.5 to $7/qt retail price that Honda would likely charge; price I would assume to be no different than their current 0W-20.
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I don't think it will be a $5-$7 oil. It's not like Ford who went through revolutionizing the market to produce and assure availability of the fluids. There's also the mandate that this be a synthetic oil. All current offerings from Honda require no more than conventional (except perhaps hybrids). We don't yet know if they're going to bother with using the fluid as an EPA certification fluid. They may decide to keep the ball in their court and let the market seek licensing as demand dictates ..or they may only use it for the hybrids yet certify it for warranty on other models IF the consumer chooses to use it for maximum economy.
Until more manufacturers step up to the plate, this should be a very expensive fluid to produce, distribute, and market. Honda should have 100% of the market share for a year or two until the others go through the required bench/field testing.
Until more manufacturers step up to the plate, this should be a very expensive fluid to produce, distribute, and market. Honda should have 100% of the market share for a year or two until the others go through the required bench/field testing.
This of course is a hypothetical discussion but I don't see why it would it be any more expensive to make than their current house brand 0W-20 which is an SM oil?
If I had Jeff Jetters email address I'd love to get him to elaborate on some of his comments. As tantalizing as the 0W-10 comment was the emphasis was on the robustness of their 0W-20 for use in all their cars.
If I had Jeff Jetters email address I'd love to get him to elaborate on some of his comments. As tantalizing as the 0W-10 comment was the emphasis was on the robustness of their 0W-20 for use in all their cars.
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