Honda is set to announce a return to F1 racing as an engine supplier with McLaren starting in 2015. Looks like they'll sit out the first year of the return to turbo engines:
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Honda F1 return announcement imminent
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Teaming up with McLaren again? Should be a fun season to watch.
Originally Posted By: JavierG
Teaming up with McLaren again? Should be a fun season to watch.
Yes, brings back memories of Senna & Prost in 1988. But, F1 is a different animal now and it will be difficult with Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari all having a year under their belts with turbo experience when Honda returns.
Teaming up with McLaren again? Should be a fun season to watch.
Yes, brings back memories of Senna & Prost in 1988. But, F1 is a different animal now and it will be difficult with Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari all having a year under their belts with turbo experience when Honda returns.
Originally Posted By: Audioquest
Originally Posted By: JavierG
Teaming up with McLaren again? Should be a fun season to watch.
Yes, brings back memories of Senna & Prost in 1988. But, F1 is a different animal now and it will be difficult with Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari all having a year under their belts with turbo experience when Honda returns.
Yes, will the new rules even allow Honda to apply their old, mid-late '80s turbo tech to the new boosted powerplants??
Originally Posted By: JavierG
Teaming up with McLaren again? Should be a fun season to watch.
Yes, brings back memories of Senna & Prost in 1988. But, F1 is a different animal now and it will be difficult with Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari all having a year under their belts with turbo experience when Honda returns.
Yes, will the new rules even allow Honda to apply their old, mid-late '80s turbo tech to the new boosted powerplants??
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Audioquest
Originally Posted By: JavierG
Teaming up with McLaren again? Should be a fun season to watch.
Yes, brings back memories of Senna & Prost in 1988. But, F1 is a different animal now and it will be difficult with Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari all having a year under their belts with turbo experience when Honda returns.
Yes, will the new rules even allow Honda to apply their old, mid-late '80s turbo tech to the new boosted powerplants??
Probably not. Back then, the only real restrictions were displacement and boost pressure. There was basically a limitless amount of engines available during a race weekend. As per Wikipedia:
"The 2014 season will see the introduction of a new engine formula, with the sport moving towards a turbocharged, 1.6 litre V6 format with an 8-speed gearbox. The rules dictate the use of a ninety-degree engine bank, with fixed crankshaft axis and mounting points for the chassis, while the engines will be limited to 15,000rpm. Individual engine units under the 2014 specifications must last for at least 4,000 km (2,500 mi) before being replaced, in comparison to the pre-2014 engines, which were required to last for just 2,000 km (1,200 mi)."
Originally Posted By: Audioquest
Originally Posted By: JavierG
Teaming up with McLaren again? Should be a fun season to watch.
Yes, brings back memories of Senna & Prost in 1988. But, F1 is a different animal now and it will be difficult with Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari all having a year under their belts with turbo experience when Honda returns.
Yes, will the new rules even allow Honda to apply their old, mid-late '80s turbo tech to the new boosted powerplants??
Probably not. Back then, the only real restrictions were displacement and boost pressure. There was basically a limitless amount of engines available during a race weekend. As per Wikipedia:
"The 2014 season will see the introduction of a new engine formula, with the sport moving towards a turbocharged, 1.6 litre V6 format with an 8-speed gearbox. The rules dictate the use of a ninety-degree engine bank, with fixed crankshaft axis and mounting points for the chassis, while the engines will be limited to 15,000rpm. Individual engine units under the 2014 specifications must last for at least 4,000 km (2,500 mi) before being replaced, in comparison to the pre-2014 engines, which were required to last for just 2,000 km (1,200 mi)."
The 80's turbo era is mostly irrelevant to today's engines. The current V8 package would be closer in engineering than the 80's era.
Unlike the 80s, keeping the engines together will not be a problem, the engines will last the 4000km easy due to the RPM reduction and electronics.
Unlike the 80s, keeping the engines together will not be a problem, the engines will last the 4000km easy due to the RPM reduction and electronics.
It's good news and good for F1.
It's good for F1 that Honda is back, not so sure the new engine is good for F1 though.
I wish BMW would return also....
I wish BMW would return also....
Originally Posted By: Audioquest
Probably not. Back then, the only real restrictions were displacement and boost pressure. There was basically a limitless amount of engines available during a race weekend. As per Wikipedia:
"The 2014 season will see the introduction of a new engine formula, with the sport moving towards a turbocharged, 1.6 litre V6 format with an 8-speed gearbox. The rules dictate the use of a ninety-degree engine bank, with fixed crankshaft axis and mounting points for the chassis, while the engines will be limited to 15,000rpm. Individual engine units under the 2014 specifications must last for at least 4,000 km (2,500 mi) before being replaced, in comparison to the pre-2014 engines, which were required to last for just 2,000 km (1,200 mi)."
The old F1 turbo formula allowed 1.5L engines, and even though there was no rev limit, the engine tecnology of the day limited them to ~13,000 rpm, which is lower than the new rev limit of 15,000. So if the new F1 turbo engines were allowed the same boost as the old rules, they would be absolute beasts.
But the new rules package institutes a fuel flow limit that keeps engine power down to ~600HP. It is expected (hoped?) that waste heat recovery systems and KERS will make up the difference in power to the current 2.4L V8's so the cars will be just about as fast.
Probably not. Back then, the only real restrictions were displacement and boost pressure. There was basically a limitless amount of engines available during a race weekend. As per Wikipedia:
"The 2014 season will see the introduction of a new engine formula, with the sport moving towards a turbocharged, 1.6 litre V6 format with an 8-speed gearbox. The rules dictate the use of a ninety-degree engine bank, with fixed crankshaft axis and mounting points for the chassis, while the engines will be limited to 15,000rpm. Individual engine units under the 2014 specifications must last for at least 4,000 km (2,500 mi) before being replaced, in comparison to the pre-2014 engines, which were required to last for just 2,000 km (1,200 mi)."
The old F1 turbo formula allowed 1.5L engines, and even though there was no rev limit, the engine tecnology of the day limited them to ~13,000 rpm, which is lower than the new rev limit of 15,000. So if the new F1 turbo engines were allowed the same boost as the old rules, they would be absolute beasts.
But the new rules package institutes a fuel flow limit that keeps engine power down to ~600HP. It is expected (hoped?) that waste heat recovery systems and KERS will make up the difference in power to the current 2.4L V8's so the cars will be just about as fast.
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Look for it to be referred to ERS (without the K) because in addition to kinetic energy they will also be recovering energy from the turbo. Energy that would be dumped through the waste-gate will be recovered and used to spin a generator to make electric power. That motor will also be used to keep the turbo spooled at low RPM or off-throttle so there is no lag and power/torque is always instantly available. Don't be surprised if this technology shows up on the new Acura NSX as well.
Audioquest: there will be some disadvantage to being off the grid for a year but development on this power unit is well underway and it should have a tons of test track time under its belt when introduced.
Audioquest: there will be some disadvantage to being off the grid for a year but development on this power unit is well underway and it should have a tons of test track time under its belt when introduced.
Originally Posted By: gofast182
Audioquest: there will be some disadvantage to being off the grid for a year but development on this power unit is well underway and it should have a tons of test track time under its belt when introduced.
Honda sitting out 2014 is a shrewd move. I think Mercedes may be the most disadvantaged in this situation. They have to supply McLaren for 2014 and may be unknowingly helping Honda develop their 2015 powerplant and prepare McLaren for the transition.
I'm hoping that Honda is prepared as their most recent foray into F1 was a disappointment. And their performance at Indianapolis this month has been pretty abysmal with not one Honda powered car making the top ten in qualifying. Of course, they sandbagged qualifying last year and mopped up in the race, but the Chev-badged Ilmor engine does seem to have more speed this year.
Audioquest: there will be some disadvantage to being off the grid for a year but development on this power unit is well underway and it should have a tons of test track time under its belt when introduced.
Honda sitting out 2014 is a shrewd move. I think Mercedes may be the most disadvantaged in this situation. They have to supply McLaren for 2014 and may be unknowingly helping Honda develop their 2015 powerplant and prepare McLaren for the transition.
I'm hoping that Honda is prepared as their most recent foray into F1 was a disappointment. And their performance at Indianapolis this month has been pretty abysmal with not one Honda powered car making the top ten in qualifying. Of course, they sandbagged qualifying last year and mopped up in the race, but the Chev-badged Ilmor engine does seem to have more speed this year.
I've read an anecdotal account that things at McLaren are exciting and tense at the same time as engineers from both Merc. and Honda are now at their facilities. The Merc. folks are now being very secretive because they don't want to give anything away.
This just in from Grandprix.com:
Meanwhile, a rumour in the Monaco paddock is that Honda could fast-forward its return to formula one from 2015 to 2014.
"Right now this is no more than a rumour," said Schmidt.
But there is great concern at Mercedes about 2014; when McLaren will use Mercedes engines, whilst 2015 partner Honda is at the very same time preparing its V6 design for the following season.
Mercedes chairman Niki Lauda said: "We will give McLaren only the information about our engine that they desperately need."
Meanwhile, a rumour in the Monaco paddock is that Honda could fast-forward its return to formula one from 2015 to 2014.
"Right now this is no more than a rumour," said Schmidt.
But there is great concern at Mercedes about 2014; when McLaren will use Mercedes engines, whilst 2015 partner Honda is at the very same time preparing its V6 design for the following season.
Mercedes chairman Niki Lauda said: "We will give McLaren only the information about our engine that they desperately need."
Originally Posted By: Audioquest
but the Chev-badged Ilmor engine does seem to have more speed this year.
Yes, and I for one could NOT be any happier about that!!
(DESPITE the 'engineering' behind the 'badge'.
)
but the Chev-badged Ilmor engine does seem to have more speed this year.
Yes, and I for one could NOT be any happier about that!!
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Audioquest
but the Chev-badged Ilmor engine does seem to have more speed this year.
Yes, and I for one could NOT be any happier about that!!
(DESPITE the 'engineering' behind the 'badge'.
)
Don't get too excited. Looks like Honda have turned up the wick again as they posted the fastest time on Carb Day with Pagenault and had 6 of the top 10 times.
Originally Posted By: Audioquest
but the Chev-badged Ilmor engine does seem to have more speed this year.
Yes, and I for one could NOT be any happier about that!!
Don't get too excited. Looks like Honda have turned up the wick again as they posted the fastest time on Carb Day with Pagenault and had 6 of the top 10 times.
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