Honda DOT 3 Brake Fluid Supplier Change?

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My dealer received a new shipment of Honda DOT 3 Brake Fluid and the bottles appear to be different than before. The bottom of the bottles now say "autochem" and the back label shows a wet boiling point of 298F.

Any idea on who this supplier is? I think it may be someone other than CCI.
 

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There are only a few companies that make brake fluid, so you have a 20% chance just by guessing :D

New bottles don't preclude CCI from remaining the supplier. Wouldn't they also change part numbers? I know Honda (and possibly other companies) use different part numbers with different suppliers. And The part number on your bottle, 08798-9108, is listed on a CCI-supplied MSDS

BASF and Clariant have locations in California and the midwest, so it could be one of them. Dow's brake fluid industry is from an acquisition of Union Carbide, mainly operating down south. It doesn't mean Dow can't be Honda's new supplier, but I would give it a lower probability than BASF, Clariant, or CCI.

The only companies called Autochem I could find are car wash/detailing products, not brake fluid. But there could be a bottler that goes by the name Autochem :unsure:
 
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The Critic

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There are only a few companies that make brake fluid, so you have a 20% chance just by guessing :D

New bottles don't preclude CCI from remaining the supplier. Wouldn't they also change part numbers? I know Honda (and possibly other companies) use different part numbers with different suppliers. And The part number on your bottle, 08798-9108, is listed on a CCI-supplied MSDS

The only companies called Autochem I could find are car wash/detailing products, not brake fluid. But there could be a bottler that goes by the name Autochem :unsure:
The bottles used to look like this:

1613683317167.jpg
 
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Wouldn't they also change part numbers? I know Honda (and possibly other companies) use different part numbers with different suppliers. And The part number on your bottle, 08798-9108
No, this is Honda's p/n irregardless of who supplies the product. In Honda's eyes, the fluids are identical and/or 100% interchangeable so the p/n remains the same.

Curious of an example where Honda uses different p/n based on suppliers for the same part. Not doubting you, but would be interested in seeing this.
 
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DOT 3 brake fluid is DOT 3 brake fluid regardless of who makes it or in which container they sell it in. Don't know why anybody would be overpaying for Honda brand DOT 3 unless have a dealer discount.

I'd bet that Auto-chem is the Quebec chemical company that was acquired by Recochem which is another Quebec chemical company that does make or bottle brake fluid.
 
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Do you remeb
No, this is Honda's p/n irregardless of who supplies the product. In Honda's eyes, the fluids are identical and/or 100% interchangeable so the p/n remains the same.

Curious of an example where Honda uses different p/n based on suppliers for the same part. Not doubting you, but would be interested in seeing this.

their oil filters, of course :)

A01 is the Filtech. A02 is the Fram. The RTA-003 is the Japanese Mahle.
 
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Honda master cylinder revivors are vented to atmosphere, ( many other makes are not ), and brake fluid is hydroscopic ( attracts water sooooooo well that it actually pulls it right out of the air and it ends up in the brake fluid ). So the Honda recommendation of flushing the brake fluid every 3 years is because you do not want too much water in your brake fluid because it will cause rust problems with the brake system.

Dot 3 is the low end of the quality spectrum with regard to brake fluid. It boils at a lower temperature than Dot 4, and dot 5.1 even boils at a higher temperature than Dot 4. Dot 5 is silicon based and does not mix well with Dot 3, or Dot 4, or Dot 5.1 So in a pinch you could use Dot 4 or Dot 5.1 in a Dot 3 system. But do not even think of using Dot 5 in a Dot 3 system.

While Dot 3 will absorb moisture right out of the air, because Dot 4 and Dot 5.1 does that worse, they will become contaminated with water faster and used up in a shorter amount of time in a system that is vented to the atmosphere like a Honda. Dot 4 pulls moisture out of the air about 20 % faster than Dot 3

So the advantage of using Dot 3 is that with a vented system like Honda uses it will last a little longer before it has pulled too much moisture out of the air and needs to be changed.
 
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DOT 3 brake fluid is DOT 3 brake fluid regardless of who makes it or in which container they sell it in. Don't know why anybody would be overpaying for Honda brand DOT 3 unless have a dealer discount.
Honda brake fluid (or steering fluid) doesn't have a premium price tag. It's pretty comparable in price to what you'll pay at an auto parts store. If you want low price, get your brake fluid at Walmart.

Honda DOT 3 = $4.99
Prestone = $3.99 (at Autozone)
Autozone (brand) = $2.49

Yeah, you do pay for "a" name but no different (well, not much different) than paying for Prestone, Valvoline, etc.

But as you say, and I understood the same thing - brake fluid is brake fluid.
 

The Critic

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DOT 3 brake fluid is DOT 3 brake fluid regardless of who makes it or in which container they sell it in. Don't know why anybody would be overpaying for Honda brand DOT 3 unless have a dealer discount.

I'd bet that Auto-chem is the Quebec chemical company that was acquired by Recochem which is another Quebec chemical company that does make or bottle brake fluid.
Thanks for the info. I faintly recall Recochem selling the “OEM” brand of coolants and brake fluids.

Not all brake fluids are the same. GM recently stated in a TSB that their Delco Supreme II fluid contains improved lubrication properties to solve a pedal squeak issue.

Similarly, Honda and Toyota had a recall about 10 years ago due to a supplier using material for the master cyl seal that would respond poorly if brake fluid with inadequate lubricants (aftermarket) was used.


Based on those two examples I am inclined to believe that the OE fluids may contain other additives that aftermarket fluids may/may not.
Honda brake fluid (or steering fluid) doesn't have a premium price tag. It's pretty comparable in price to what you'll pay at an auto parts store. If you want low price, get your brake fluid at Walmart.

Honda DOT 3 = $4.99
Prestone = $3.99 (at Autozone)
Autozone (brand) = $2.49

Yeah, you do pay for "a" name but no different (well, not much different) than paying for Prestone, Valvoline, etc.

But as you say, and I understood the same thing - brake fluid is brake fluid.
I paid $8.94/qt from the dealer.
 

X15

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US Design Patent 278,975 was assigned to Gold Eagle Co. of Chicago, IL who also had a now expired trademark (SN 72323556) on "AUTOCHEM".

In addition to owning such brands as 303, HEET, and STA-BIL, Gold Eagle has a contract packaging / private label division that "... has hundreds of formulations created and packaged for Tier 1 automotive manufacturers like Honda", as well as their own private label "MOTOR FORCE" brand that includes DOT 3 brake fluid in their catalog.
 

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DOT 3 brake fluid is DOT 3 brake fluid regardless of who makes it or in which container they sell it in. Don't know why anybody would be overpaying for Honda brand DOT 3 unless have a dealer discount.

I'd bet that Auto-chem is the Quebec chemical company that was acquired by Recochem which is another Quebec chemical company that does make or bottle brake fluid.
I used to feel the same way until I saw how high Honda's brake fluid pH is: 10. It's much higher than most other brands. The only one I've seen that high of a pH is Castrol SRF and Redline. I heard they had issues with the brake system because many service departments were using regular brake fluid. That's why it changed from "recommended" to "required" in the owners manual.
 
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I've never seen a Honda owner's manual that required a particular brake fluid. Got an example ? As far as brake fluid, Honda isn't that picky but with their power steering fluids, they are.
 

The Critic

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I've never seen a Honda owner's manual that required a particular brake fluid. Got an example ? As far as brake fluid, Honda isn't that picky but with their power steering fluids, they are.
From a 2020 Accord's owners manual:

1621958747505.jpg

Interpret this as you see fit...
 
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Required to use a certain brake fluid - "Honda Heavy Duty DOT3"? One more reason for me to stay away from Honda.
They make their mechanical parts so poorly special that they end up requiring special fluid formulations to prevent failures.
Failure modes that other makers have no issues with.
 
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Interpret this as you see fit...
Definitely interpretable different ways... It's the "specified" fluid but regular DOT 3 or 4 can be used "temporarily" ? They'll allow something as critical as the fluid for their braking system to use something else, even temporarily ? I did check our '12 Civic and '12 Accord manuals and they use the exact same wording so I read those too quickly in the past myself.
 
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For OEM business (non automotive) that I am familiar with, they will have a spec that all vendors have to meet, and what they provide may not be identical to what they provide another company.

For example, let's say Honda ask Idemitsu to provide brake fluid, they may get a different fluid than what Idemitsu sell to Toyota or GM and the "active ingredient" between Idemitsu made Honda fluid may be identical to Exxon provided fluid to Honda. There will be small variation that aren't concerning to Honda, because each company has different cost for different ingredients and facilities, etc.

OEM test for a lot of corner cases that are not relevant to typical customer sitting in one location, like backward compatible to a vehicle made 20 years ago, compatible with another equipment in the factory line, etc.
 
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I thought "DOT 3" or "DOT 4" was the spec so DOT 3 brake fluid with a Supertech label is identical in function to DOT 3 brake fluid with a Honda or Prestone label. I just don't see Honda or any automaker requiring a specific brake fluid be used in something as critical as brakes even with the caveat of "it's okay if it's temporary".
 
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I thought "DOT 3" or "DOT 4" was the spec so DOT 3 brake fluid with a Supertech label is identical in function to DOT 3 brake fluid with a Honda or Prestone label. I just don't see Honda or any automaker requiring a specific brake fluid be used in something as critical as brakes even with the caveat of "it's okay if it's temporary".
It is a performance spec, like how high the boiling point is or how much moisture it can absorb or how much corrosion protection it need.

It does not prevent Honda from asking their own vendor to provide MORE than that spec and not tell you what they are (i.e. adding an ingredient as a bandaid to their brake system problem).

To use Hard Drive as an example, HP used to ask for a custom hard drive spec than just regular IDE / SATA because they found problem in their cases that they would hum / resonate at the standard actuator speed, so they ask the drive companies to slow it down so it won't resonate. You can install aftermarket drives but they won't warranty you if it suddenly becomes very annoying. Same goes for Honda / Toyota's brake booster leak, they have asked for some extra stuff in their formula to condition the brake booster to reduce / postpone leakage.
 
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