Honda Civic Si

[VaderSS]

I claim that 0-60 is meaningless when it comes to whether a car is "Sport" or not. I can still have a minimum 0-60 time that is acceptable to me. That a car's time is more than that time does not keep it from being a sports car. There are times, on the street, when a 1 second 0-60 difference can be felt, like when trying to get up a short freeway onramp into dense fast traffic.

The Civic Si's forte' is not acceleration though, it's handling, and it is a superb handling car, almost neutral and very tight. To me, a "Sports" vehicle is all about handling. The handling of the Civic Si is something that has to be expereinced to be believed.

 

[rjundi]

On the comment of Honda Civic SI an economy car roots:

Is an Audi TT a not a sports car even though its built off the same chassis as VW Golf, Jetta, and Beetle? Or is it a mere sporty coupe?

 

[webfors]

Isn't the crv built on the civic platform also? I think platforms can be used for almost anything, so the fact that a civic Si is built on the civic platform shouldn't shoe-horn it into economy status.

The Si is a sports car, so is the TT, and the Miata. But then again a sports car by name is in the eye of the beholder I suppose

Technically, an NSX is a 'sports car', so does that disqualify other, less expensive, 'sporty' cars? I don't think so. I thought my 2004 Si was a 'sports car', sure felt like one

 

[Auto-Union]

BTW, my Base RSX handles like crazy...perfect for me.

 

[goodvibes]

quote:

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Originally posted by JHZR2:

quote:

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Originally posted by VaderSS:
Wow, can't believe people still using 0-60 figures to tag a car as a Sports oriented or not.

Guess my Miata is not a Sports Car since it takes 8 seconds to do 0-60...

... ...
I've not driven a Honda Fit, but 9 second 0-60 simply does not do it for me,

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Am I missing something here? You claim that 0-60 is nearly menaingless, then say the honda fit wont do it for you because of its 9 second 0-60???

Like youll notice 1 second difference in 0-60 on anything but a test track or street race.

OK, lets analyze here. The civic was built from the wheels up as an economy car. no way around it, economy car. The miata? It was built on a platform designed to be a sporty car. With the right money and tuning, anyone can make a fwd rice rocket, and as much as people bash them, some of them are technically well built and fast... the Si is just a rice rocket that you can get built from the factory... great? so what?

If you want a sports car, buy one. Though the miata is no M roadster, it is a top notch little sporty car. The civic is an economy car in 'performance oriented' makeup. Small and 4 cylinders doesnt equal sporty or not in and of itself... but the basis and build of the car does.

Heck, the impala SS is just a whale of a police car that was tuned up with essentially a corvette engine and a lot of suspension upgrades. I dont deny that it was a great car to drive, and is a wonderful overall package... and if I had to choose, Id take an impala over an Si anyday.

A 200hp 4cyl engine that cant go faster than 6.8 seconds 0-60 is nothing special. the overall package isnt really anything special to me either... frankly accelerating hard and going relatively fast is one thing... making onramps and merges fun is something that a decent torquey engine can do well. But, weaving in and out or taking curves at too high of rates of speed to make use of the hadling capabilities at the limit (which is in reality what these cars are tuned to do) is just plain unsafe anywhere but the track.

The civic si doesnt do it for me... but as in all of these things, YMMV.

JMH

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Quite the jaundiced eye. Higher limits are now less safe and predictability at the limit is undesirable in an emergency. It's actually pretty simple when it comes to cars. If it feels good and don't break, do it. Perhaps a Civic si isn't a sports car but a sporty one but what's the qualifier? 2 seats? RWD? For me it would be feel and tossability followed by straight line speed and tossability doesn't mean losing traction. An auto other than something like the dual clutch Audi system would take the goodness out of sports car for me also. A purpose built 2 seater should be better at it but if an SI performs better than last years Audi tt, do you disqualify it. Who cares what it's called. It's pretty good.

 

[JHZR2]

quote:

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Originally posted by goodvibes:
Higher limits are now less safe and predictability at the limit is undesirable in an emergency.

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They are when you consider how low the average driver's skill is...

I dont want to think about how many times Ive seen jerks who think their car is "performance oriented", and think this gives them a free ticket to weave in and out of traffic, speed excessively, drive too fast for conditions, etc. moving collisions, hitting bariers, guardrails, spinning out in the midle of interstates... yep, Ive seen it all. Especially on the supposedly 'well designed' I-495 in DE, where one can reasonably go 100+ MPH in good weather.

Let's face it, we're not stupid here... there are a lot of people with questionable skill, pushing their cars to the limits and effecting the safety of everyone on the road. Having higher and higher capabilities doesnt make anything safer, it makes them go faster and more aggressively. There is a small subset of people that can appreciate the benefits without causing risk to everyone ese on the road, but this is the exception, not the rule.

Not that people cant drive irresponsibly in lesser cars, but when you have a car with more capability, and a 'fast and furious' mentality, the prospect for problems is quite high. I'm 25... I still get lumped into the group of high risk males... and I pay for it, despite my record and driving ability. Why??? hmmmm, I wonder.

JMH

 

[VaderSS]

The great thing about cars like the Impala SS, Miata, and Civic Si, is that they are predicatable, but still tossable, and having decent, though not extremely high, levels of grip. They are fun to drive at sane speeds, whatever you call them.

Many of the more expensive and faster, more powerful cars, are fun to drive as well, but the limits are so high as to make exploiting the limits on the street irresponsible.

The great thing about cars is that there are so many different ones that a person can pick the things most important to them, and often get them in one package.

Since getting the Miata, very quick response and precision have become much more important to me, but for an only car, it does not have enough passenger/cargo capacity. The Impala fills those bills, but at the expense of precision, and it also requires a more deliberate driving style with a mind to the inertia of the 2 tons you are flinging around.

In a perfect world, there would be an affordable 4 seat RWD sedan with the response, precision, and handling of the Miata. An M3 fits that bill, except for the affordable part. I'd have to go back to the mid '90s to get one in my price range. I don't want to have ANY mid '90s car as an only car though.

The Honda Civic Si fills all of those bills except for the RWD part, and except when I want to go sideways, makes me forget it is FWD. That is a pretty impressive achievment, to me.

 

[GeaugaFletcher]

quote:

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Originally posted by JHZR2:

there are a lot of people with questionable skill, pushing their cars to the limits and effecting the safety of everyone on the road.

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Ok, small grammar police moment. If they 'effect our safety', they make us safe. If the 'affect our safety', they change our state of safety - they have an effect on our safety.

Sorry, had to do it. That's one word error that drive me nuts.

By the way, I agree with your assessment.

 

[Cicero]

I LOVE the Honda Si in Habanero Red! OUCH!!! What a great car color! Especially at stop signs! Eat your hearts out VW, Mazda,Subaru,Kia,Toyota,... et.al.
Mazda has some good car colors too. OK, Honda paint IS soft and that's no good, but Habanero Red! Yes, yes, yes!!! The Fiji Blue Pearl Si isn't bad either. The rest of the honda civic colors are boring. The Vette has some cool colors too and one even looks like Si Fiji Blue Pearl!!!But some of them are boring too.

But, we can all agree that 0-60 in 6.8-7.0 seconds looks best in Habanero Red. On a Vette, NO. It would look just like any metallic red. TOO FAST TO NOTICE the cooperish overtones. Not good.

 

[swalve]

I've driven an Si, and didn't care for it. No low end at all. Seems like if you're going to sacrifice the torquey fun, you better get better mileage...

 

[novaracer69]

The I have driven a mazada 3 and tell you the truth add about 30hp and a bigger rear bar and more tire and it would be a nice car. As far as the si the only thing it has going for it is the LSD. But the best bang for the buck has to be a cobalt SS/SC G85 pkg stage 2. hands down it has to be the best all around sport compact that car drag race and give a mustang a hard time and do a track day and then go out and autox (solo2) and place in the top of your class.

 

[Cicero]

quote:

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Originally posted by swalve:
I've driven an Si, and didn't care for it. No low end at all. Seems like if you're going to sacrifice the torquey fun, you better get better mileage...

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What torquey fun do you mean? Like when you wizz and your heels come off the ground?

I really shouldn't get caught up in your "world" but here goes, just this one time. I guess you mean well but....here's the thing...

I just can't live without a 2007 (VSA) Habanero Red Si to clay, polish, seal and wax every weekend.... or more. I need that bold canvas. Besides, the Si has all the torque I require and all that the Honda Engineers intended it to have.

BTW you were very lucky to have found an Si on a lot, much less to get to test drive it. (Your friend's perhaps?) How was it in the 5000-7800 RPM range? Did the engine really came alive for you? When you hit 139 ft.lbs. @ 6100 RPM, is that when you realized it had "no low end at all"? I feel your pain, but I can't relate to it.

Thanks for the warning about the car's torque.

 

[JHZR2]

A corvette or BMW would be worth clay, polishining and waxing every weekend...

A glorified economy car might be worth a polish, but there sure isnt a lot of talking room when dealing with owners of 'greater' cars, and there sure wont be a lot to be proud of come 15 years when all you have is a buzzy economy car with too much power and tires that cost more than the shell is worth.

Personally, I cant see spending so much money on a lackluster performer, compared to 'lesser' economy cars that are 85% of what the Si is...

But thats justme.

JMH

 

[Cicero]

quote:

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Originally posted by JHZR2:

...owners of 'greater' cars...
...But thats justme.

JMH

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[I just want to get this out of the way first. It's "just me" and "that's". It's OK, we all make mistakes.]

If a man offers a man a gift and it is not
accepted, who then does the gift belong to? ANY car worthy of someone's hard earned money is worth taking care of.

There are a lot of honest, kind, decent hard working guys and gals here at BITOG that own those under $25,000 cars you look down your nose at. They love them, care for them and take great pride in what they have...and can afford.

Tomorrow those dirty old econo cars will be clean and beautiful, but I bet some person's ego at BITOG will still be ugly.

 

[Drew99GT]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cicero:

quote:

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Originally posted by JHZR2:

...owners of 'greater' cars...
...But thats justme.

JMH

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[I just want to get this out of the way first. It's "just me" and "that's". It's OK, we all make mistakes.]

If a man offers a man a gift and it is not
accepted, who then does the gift belong to? ANY car worthy of someone's hard earned money is worth taking care of.

There are a lot of honest, kind, decent hard working guys and gals here at BITOG that own those under $25,000 cars you look down your nose at. They love them, care for them and take great pride in what they have...and can afford.

Tomorrow those dirty old econo cars will be clean and beautiful, but I bet some person's ego at BITOG will still be ugly.

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Well said. I drive an economy car, and it's far from glorified. It's a glorified p.o.s. and I love it!!! I don't get p-oed when it hails

[ September 15, 2006, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: Drew99GT ]

 

[webfors]

quote:

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Originally posted by JHZR2:
A corvette or BMW would be worth clay, polishining and waxing every weekend...

A glorified economy car might be worth a polish, but there sure isnt a lot of talking room when dealing with owners of 'greater' cars, and there sure wont be a lot to be proud of come 15 years when all you have is a buzzy economy car with too much power and tires that cost more than the shell is worth.

Personally, I cant see spending so much money on a lackluster performer, compared to 'lesser' economy cars that are 85% of what the Si is...

But thats justme.

JMH

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haha, here we go again with the overpriced (like double, triple, quadruple the cost) car lovers... I guess I would zealously defend their 'superior' craftsmanship too if I doled out that much money for one lol

I've seen plenty of old bmw's, saabs, mercedes, and audi's and they typically look in much worst shape after 10 years as any honda, assuming their driven as much and through our brutal canadian winters (vettes don't count cause they're stored all winter). In fact, I see way more 10+ year old hondas on the road and my experience with audi, vw, and bmw has been below average with respect to reliability and cost of ownership. I suppose since you paid more for the car, you feel justified spending 5-10 times for the same maintenance lol