MolaKule
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Honda Brake Fluid
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Originally Posted By: Cardenio327
The story I heard was that about 10 years ago a supplier produced faulty rubber brake seals for Toyota and Honda. Supposedly if you don't use Toyota or Honda fluid the seals could degrade. Who knows if it is true or not, and if true, which models and years it applies to.
I've changed and bled brake fluid on my Fit 3 times with Maxima DOT4 and Pentosin SuperDOT4, but I think it is newer than the defective seals, and maybe the fluids I use contain better lubricants, as expensive as they are.
There is some truth to this. There was recently (a few years ago) a recall to replace the master cylinder cup seal on some Honda and Toyota vehicles due to a possible failure if non OE fluid was used. Supposedly the OE brake fluid on Honda and Toyota vehicles contain a higher level of polymer that may not be found in certain aftermarket fluids.
https://consumerist.com/2010/10/22/honda-recalls-nearly-500k-cars-over-brake-problems/
http://www.shopownermag.com/latest-toyota-recall-due-to-replacement-brake-fluid-and-oe-seals/
Regardless, I think any quality DOT3 fluid will be fine for a Honda. But the OE fluid is probably a good quality DOT3 so I do try to use it if possible. Unfortunately the OE Honda DOT3 fluid is quite pricey (about $5 per 12oz bottle).
The story I heard was that about 10 years ago a supplier produced faulty rubber brake seals for Toyota and Honda. Supposedly if you don't use Toyota or Honda fluid the seals could degrade. Who knows if it is true or not, and if true, which models and years it applies to.
I've changed and bled brake fluid on my Fit 3 times with Maxima DOT4 and Pentosin SuperDOT4, but I think it is newer than the defective seals, and maybe the fluids I use contain better lubricants, as expensive as they are.
There is some truth to this. There was recently (a few years ago) a recall to replace the master cylinder cup seal on some Honda and Toyota vehicles due to a possible failure if non OE fluid was used. Supposedly the OE brake fluid on Honda and Toyota vehicles contain a higher level of polymer that may not be found in certain aftermarket fluids.
https://consumerist.com/2010/10/22/honda-recalls-nearly-500k-cars-over-brake-problems/
http://www.shopownermag.com/latest-toyota-recall-due-to-replacement-brake-fluid-and-oe-seals/
Regardless, I think any quality DOT3 fluid will be fine for a Honda. But the OE fluid is probably a good quality DOT3 so I do try to use it if possible. Unfortunately the OE Honda DOT3 fluid is quite pricey (about $5 per 12oz bottle).
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Cardenio327
The story I heard was that about 10 years ago a supplier produced faulty rubber brake seals for Toyota and Honda. Supposedly if you don't use Toyota or Honda fluid the seals could degrade. Who knows if it is true or not, and if true, which models and years it applies to.
I've changed and bled brake fluid on my Fit 3 times with Maxima DOT4 and Pentosin SuperDOT4, but I think it is newer than the defective seals, and maybe the fluids I use contain better lubricants, as expensive as they are.
There is some truth to this. There was recently (a few years ago) a recall to replace the master cylinder cup seal on some Honda and Toyota vehicles due to a possible failure if non OE fluid was used. Supposedly the OE brake fluid on Honda and Toyota vehicles contain a higher level of polymer that may not be found in certain aftermarket fluids.
https://consumerist.com/2010/10/22/honda-recalls-nearly-500k-cars-over-brake-problems/
http://www.shopownermag.com/latest-toyota-recall-due-to-replacement-brake-fluid-and-oe-seals/
Regardless, I think any quality DOT3 fluid will be fine for a Honda. But the OE fluid is probably a good quality DOT3 so I do try to use it if possible. Unfortunately the OE Honda DOT3 fluid is quite pricey (about $5 per 12oz bottle).
Problem was traced to faulty seals from a common supplier to Honda & Toyota. Had nothing to do with brake fluid.
Originally Posted By: Cardenio327
The story I heard was that about 10 years ago a supplier produced faulty rubber brake seals for Toyota and Honda. Supposedly if you don't use Toyota or Honda fluid the seals could degrade. Who knows if it is true or not, and if true, which models and years it applies to.
I've changed and bled brake fluid on my Fit 3 times with Maxima DOT4 and Pentosin SuperDOT4, but I think it is newer than the defective seals, and maybe the fluids I use contain better lubricants, as expensive as they are.
There is some truth to this. There was recently (a few years ago) a recall to replace the master cylinder cup seal on some Honda and Toyota vehicles due to a possible failure if non OE fluid was used. Supposedly the OE brake fluid on Honda and Toyota vehicles contain a higher level of polymer that may not be found in certain aftermarket fluids.
https://consumerist.com/2010/10/22/honda-recalls-nearly-500k-cars-over-brake-problems/
http://www.shopownermag.com/latest-toyota-recall-due-to-replacement-brake-fluid-and-oe-seals/
Regardless, I think any quality DOT3 fluid will be fine for a Honda. But the OE fluid is probably a good quality DOT3 so I do try to use it if possible. Unfortunately the OE Honda DOT3 fluid is quite pricey (about $5 per 12oz bottle).
Problem was traced to faulty seals from a common supplier to Honda & Toyota. Had nothing to do with brake fluid.
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I guess this really throws a monkey wrench in the mix.
Here is the description from Honda's website. Honda brake fluid might use better moisture inhibitors compared to some other brake fluids? They say to replace after three years, so they must be confident it can go that long before replacing.
I had trouble with the brake fluid from one brand absorbing moisture, I understand all brake fluid do it, that is their nature, that's why the lines need to be flushed every couple of years, but this almost seemed too much so, I changed to Pennzoil brake fluid and flushed the lines every two years, and the problem hasn't come back.
What happen was that the fluid was developing kind of like a mold in the bottom on the master cylinder. Sucked it out with a turkey baster. The brand was the Valvoline synthetic brake fluid, the older brown/tan bottle and label. I have not tried the new formula, the one with the white bottle and blue label. The whole experience made me leery of trying the new formula.
http://owners.honda.com/parts-accessories/parts
I had trouble with the brake fluid from one brand absorbing moisture, I understand all brake fluid do it, that is their nature, that's why the lines need to be flushed every couple of years, but this almost seemed too much so, I changed to Pennzoil brake fluid and flushed the lines every two years, and the problem hasn't come back.
What happen was that the fluid was developing kind of like a mold in the bottom on the master cylinder. Sucked it out with a turkey baster. The brand was the Valvoline synthetic brake fluid, the older brown/tan bottle and label. I have not tried the new formula, the one with the white bottle and blue label. The whole experience made me leery of trying the new formula.
http://owners.honda.com/parts-accessories/parts
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Originally Posted By: Trav
I guess this really throws a monkey wrench in the mix.
Castrol's brake fluid (used to be called LMA but they dropped LMA from recent labels) is also listed for both DOT 3 and 4
I guess this really throws a monkey wrench in the mix.
Castrol's brake fluid (used to be called LMA but they dropped LMA from recent labels) is also listed for both DOT 3 and 4
So, are these comments below in the old, often cited Stop Tech article about brake fluids not true?
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/brake-fluid
- "the DOT 4 fluid will have a more stable and higher boiling point during the early portion of its life, but ironically once the fluid does actually begin to absorb water its boiling point will typically fall off more rapidly than a typical DOT 3........DOT 4 fluid should be changed more often than a DOT 3 fluid, because of the effects and rates of water absorption."
and
- "Systems designed for a particular type of fluid (especially prior to the wide distribution and use of DOT 4 fluids) should continue to be filled with that fluid. For example, in a car that was delivered with DOT 3 fluid, the internal components of the system (seals, brake hoses, and fittings for example) were specifically designed and tested for compatibility with the chemical composition of DOT 3 fluid. Because the DOT 4 grade fluid typically contains a different chemical composition, compatibility of system components may be an issue. " I think some implied that the DOT 4 boron might not be compatible to some DOT 3 systems.
- Finally, doesn't the Magnuson-Moss Tie-In Sales Provision prevent Honda specifying only their fluid, unless they provide it for free??
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/brake-fluid
- "the DOT 4 fluid will have a more stable and higher boiling point during the early portion of its life, but ironically once the fluid does actually begin to absorb water its boiling point will typically fall off more rapidly than a typical DOT 3........DOT 4 fluid should be changed more often than a DOT 3 fluid, because of the effects and rates of water absorption."
and
- "Systems designed for a particular type of fluid (especially prior to the wide distribution and use of DOT 4 fluids) should continue to be filled with that fluid. For example, in a car that was delivered with DOT 3 fluid, the internal components of the system (seals, brake hoses, and fittings for example) were specifically designed and tested for compatibility with the chemical composition of DOT 3 fluid. Because the DOT 4 grade fluid typically contains a different chemical composition, compatibility of system components may be an issue. " I think some implied that the DOT 4 boron might not be compatible to some DOT 3 systems.
- Finally, doesn't the Magnuson-Moss Tie-In Sales Provision prevent Honda specifying only their fluid, unless they provide it for free??
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
doesn't the Magnuson-Moss Tie-In Sales Provision prevent Honda specifying only their fluid, unless they provide it for free??
Honda's warranty is only 3 years, so it's out of warranty before you need to change it (Honda says change it every 3 years regardless of mileage), the only fluid not monitored by the MM
doesn't the Magnuson-Moss Tie-In Sales Provision prevent Honda specifying only their fluid, unless they provide it for free??
Honda's warranty is only 3 years, so it's out of warranty before you need to change it (Honda says change it every 3 years regardless of mileage), the only fluid not monitored by the MM
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
doesn't the Magnuson-Moss Tie-In Sales Provision prevent Honda specifying only their fluid, unless they provide it for free??
Honda's warranty is only 3 years, so it's out of warranty before you need to change it (Honda says change it every 3 years regardless of mileage), the only fluid not monitored by the MM
Exactly. Same with their ATF. They have just about the lowest/worst warranty coverage in the industry, so neither fluid would normally need to be replaced during warranty, et voila! Instant MMWA dodge. :-|
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
doesn't the Magnuson-Moss Tie-In Sales Provision prevent Honda specifying only their fluid, unless they provide it for free??
Honda's warranty is only 3 years, so it's out of warranty before you need to change it (Honda says change it every 3 years regardless of mileage), the only fluid not monitored by the MM
Exactly. Same with their ATF. They have just about the lowest/worst warranty coverage in the industry, so neither fluid would normally need to be replaced during warranty, et voila! Instant MMWA dodge. :-|
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