Honda Automatic Transmission Design...
- Thread starter gregk24
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I think its a good idea, considering how long manuals last. The problem is usually how well it is built. The 4 cylinder models don't have many problems. The 6 cylinder models put more stress on the transmission, so any weakness in the design will be exposed.
By the way, here is a video from EricTheCarGuy showing some of the internals of his 2001 Odyssey's transmission. You can see how the different clutch drums and gears work together. Note that this is an early transmission. The later 5-speed models (beginning in or around 2004 or 2005 depending on the model) use a 4-shaft design (instead of the 3-shaft design featured in this video).
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Should I be worried about my 2012 V6 Accord's transmission? 2 years and no problems with the car what so ever. It shifts super smooth and it pretty fast.
No. Change the fluid as prescribed and drive on.
Already did 2 drain and fills at 15,000 miles and will do it again at 30,000 and every 30,000 after that.
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Should I be worried about my 2012 V6 Accord's transmission? 2 years and no problems with the car what so ever. It shifts super smooth and it pretty fast.
No. Change the fluid as prescribed and drive on.
Already did 2 drain and fills at 15,000 miles and will do it again at 30,000 and every 30,000 after that.
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Should I be worried about my 2012 V6 Accord's transmission? 2 years and no problems with the car what so ever. It shifts super smooth and it pretty fast.
No. Change the fluid as prescribed and drive on.
Already did 2 drain and fills at 15,000 miles and will do it again at 30,000 and every 30,000 after that.
WHAT? Twice in the first 15,000 miles and 3 in the first 30k!? That's insane! Why? That's a lot of wasted time and a lot of wasted money.
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Should I be worried about my 2012 V6 Accord's transmission? 2 years and no problems with the car what so ever. It shifts super smooth and it pretty fast.
No. Change the fluid as prescribed and drive on.
Already did 2 drain and fills at 15,000 miles and will do it again at 30,000 and every 30,000 after that.
WHAT? Twice in the first 15,000 miles and 3 in the first 30k!? That's insane! Why? That's a lot of wasted time and a lot of wasted money.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
WHAT? Twice in the first 15,000 miles and 3 in the first 30k!? That's insane! Why? That's a lot of wasted time and a lot of wasted money.
If they're talking about the same d&f that I do it's ~3 qts that comes out (that's how much comes out of my ~7.2 qt cap transaxle). It just takes a few minutes, the transaxle has a drain plug so I do the d&f when I do an oil change. Fill through the fill plug or dipstick hole. 3 qts of ATF and about 15 min., that's all.
WHAT? Twice in the first 15,000 miles and 3 in the first 30k!? That's insane! Why? That's a lot of wasted time and a lot of wasted money.
If they're talking about the same d&f that I do it's ~3 qts that comes out (that's how much comes out of my ~7.2 qt cap transaxle). It just takes a few minutes, the transaxle has a drain plug so I do the d&f when I do an oil change. Fill through the fill plug or dipstick hole. 3 qts of ATF and about 15 min., that's all.
Originally Posted By: Blokey
Originally Posted By: TomYoung
Your 2000 tl is a four speed transmission and is not impacted by this problem.
Uh, no. Second gen 3.2TLs had the 4 spd transaxles in '99 only.
They went to the 5 spd transaxle in 2000, which is what my car has:
That's complicated!
Originally Posted By: TomYoung
Your 2000 tl is a four speed transmission and is not impacted by this problem.
Uh, no. Second gen 3.2TLs had the 4 spd transaxles in '99 only.
They went to the 5 spd transaxle in 2000, which is what my car has:
That's complicated!
Originally Posted By: Blokey
Originally Posted By: Miller88
That's complicated!
Sarcasm?
because it isn't complicated at all.
Nope, serious. There is a lot going on in that.
Why does it need up/down functionality in D5, yet still have positions available for 1-2 and 3,4. Seems like the whiole shifter was an after thought
Originally Posted By: Miller88
That's complicated!
Sarcasm?
Nope, serious. There is a lot going on in that.
Why does it need up/down functionality in D5, yet still have positions available for 1-2 and 3,4. Seems like the whiole shifter was an after thought
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Should I be worried about my 2012 V6 Accord's transmission? 2 years and no problems with the car what so ever. It shifts super smooth and it pretty fast.
No. Change the fluid as prescribed and drive on.
Already did 2 drain and fills at 15,000 miles and will do it again at 30,000 and every 30,000 after that.
WHAT? Twice in the first 15,000 miles and 3 in the first 30k!? That's insane! Why? That's a lot of wasted time and a lot of wasted money.
Not a waist of time or money at all, If it was my car I would be doing drain and fills every 10K miles...which IS what I do with my car. A new transmission is $3500, its not worth the risk.
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Should I be worried about my 2012 V6 Accord's transmission? 2 years and no problems with the car what so ever. It shifts super smooth and it pretty fast.
No. Change the fluid as prescribed and drive on.
Already did 2 drain and fills at 15,000 miles and will do it again at 30,000 and every 30,000 after that.
WHAT? Twice in the first 15,000 miles and 3 in the first 30k!? That's insane! Why? That's a lot of wasted time and a lot of wasted money.
Not a waist of time or money at all, If it was my car I would be doing drain and fills every 10K miles...which IS what I do with my car. A new transmission is $3500, its not worth the risk.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: Blokey
Originally Posted By: TomYoung
Your 2000 tl is a four speed transmission and is not impacted by this problem.
Uh, no. Second gen 3.2TLs had the 4 spd transaxles in '99 only.
They went to the 5 spd transaxle in 2000, which is what my car has:
That's complicated!
Agreed! I hate gated shifters. That car had the most annoying shifter to get into drive. The whole car was just a nightmare.
Originally Posted By: Blokey
Originally Posted By: TomYoung
Your 2000 tl is a four speed transmission and is not impacted by this problem.
Uh, no. Second gen 3.2TLs had the 4 spd transaxles in '99 only.
They went to the 5 spd transaxle in 2000, which is what my car has:
That's complicated!
Agreed! I hate gated shifters. That car had the most annoying shifter to get into drive. The whole car was just a nightmare.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: Blokey
Originally Posted By: Miller88
That's complicated!
Sarcasm?
because it isn't complicated at all.
Nope, serious. There is a lot going on in that.
Why does it need up/down functionality in D5, yet still have positions available for 1-2 and 3,4. Seems like the whiole shifter was an after thought
It is a bit bizarre looking, I will give you that.. Although 99% of the time most people will just leave it where it needs to be for the car to move forward.
Originally Posted By: Blokey
Originally Posted By: Miller88
That's complicated!
Sarcasm?
Nope, serious. There is a lot going on in that.
Why does it need up/down functionality in D5, yet still have positions available for 1-2 and 3,4. Seems like the whiole shifter was an after thought
It is a bit bizarre looking, I will give you that.. Although 99% of the time most people will just leave it where it needs to be for the car to move forward.
Originally Posted By: hypervish
Honda transmissions tend to shift rough (i.e. not smooth, you can feel every shift), due to the nature of their design. Older Honda's would knock your teeth out when they shifted. Although they have gotten a bit better in this respect, but still not nearly as smooth as competitors.
Yup, the automatic in my 92 Accord is quite clunky. But at least it is known to be very reliable. I expect it will clunk its way up past 250k miles.
Honda transmissions tend to shift rough (i.e. not smooth, you can feel every shift), due to the nature of their design. Older Honda's would knock your teeth out when they shifted. Although they have gotten a bit better in this respect, but still not nearly as smooth as competitors.
Yup, the automatic in my 92 Accord is quite clunky. But at least it is known to be very reliable. I expect it will clunk its way up past 250k miles.
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: hypervish
Honda transmissions tend to shift rough (i.e. not smooth, you can feel every shift), due to the nature of their design. Older Honda's would knock your teeth out when they shifted. Although they have gotten a bit better in this respect, but still not nearly as smooth as competitors.
Yup, the automatic in my 92 Accord is quite clunky. But at least it is known to be very reliable. I expect it will clunk its way up past 250k miles.
Actually when you think about it the shift quality is quite closely related to how a manually shifted car might feel when going in and out of gears.
Originally Posted By: hypervish
Honda transmissions tend to shift rough (i.e. not smooth, you can feel every shift), due to the nature of their design. Older Honda's would knock your teeth out when they shifted. Although they have gotten a bit better in this respect, but still not nearly as smooth as competitors.
Yup, the automatic in my 92 Accord is quite clunky. But at least it is known to be very reliable. I expect it will clunk its way up past 250k miles.
Actually when you think about it the shift quality is quite closely related to how a manually shifted car might feel when going in and out of gears.
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: hypervish
Honda transmissions tend to shift rough (i.e. not smooth, you can feel every shift), due to the nature of their design. Older Honda's would knock your teeth out when they shifted. Although they have gotten a bit better in this respect, but still not nearly as smooth as competitors.
Yup, the automatic in my 92 Accord is quite clunky. But at least it is known to be very reliable. I expect it will clunk its way up past 250k miles.
Actually when you think about it the shift quality is quite closely related to how a manually shifted car might feel when going in and out of gears.
Yes it is similar. But still clunkier than most conventional automatics.
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: hypervish
Honda transmissions tend to shift rough (i.e. not smooth, you can feel every shift), due to the nature of their design. Older Honda's would knock your teeth out when they shifted. Although they have gotten a bit better in this respect, but still not nearly as smooth as competitors.
Yup, the automatic in my 92 Accord is quite clunky. But at least it is known to be very reliable. I expect it will clunk its way up past 250k miles.
Actually when you think about it the shift quality is quite closely related to how a manually shifted car might feel when going in and out of gears.
Yes it is similar. But still clunkier than most conventional automatics.
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: hypervish
Honda transmissions tend to shift rough (i.e. not smooth, you can feel every shift), due to the nature of their design. Older Honda's would knock your teeth out when they shifted. Although they have gotten a bit better in this respect, but still not nearly as smooth as competitors.
Yup, the automatic in my 92 Accord is quite clunky. But at least it is known to be very reliable. I expect it will clunk its way up past 250k miles.
Yep, the auto in my previous 1995 Accord V6 was clunky when shifting at low speeds and driving around town in stop and go. But it kept on going! Traded it in at 225K miles with a minor shift flare every now and then.
Originally Posted By: hypervish
Honda transmissions tend to shift rough (i.e. not smooth, you can feel every shift), due to the nature of their design. Older Honda's would knock your teeth out when they shifted. Although they have gotten a bit better in this respect, but still not nearly as smooth as competitors.
Yup, the automatic in my 92 Accord is quite clunky. But at least it is known to be very reliable. I expect it will clunk its way up past 250k miles.
Yep, the auto in my previous 1995 Accord V6 was clunky when shifting at low speeds and driving around town in stop and go. But it kept on going! Traded it in at 225K miles with a minor shift flare every now and then.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Why does it need up/down functionality in D5, yet still have positions available for 1-2 and 3,4. Seems like the whiole shifter was an after thought
It works quite well, actually, and it gives you a ton of control over the transmission, in a very compact space. Take the gated part first, the D5, 4, 3, and 2<>1. D5 is obviously full automatic mode, and it can shift through all five gears. D4 is as you would expect, full automatic mode, but it only shifts through the first four gears. 3 is the same as above, but it can use only the first three gears. 2<>1 means the transmission can use ONLY 2nd gear (for slippery starts or for creeping around a parking lot) or ONLY 1st gear.
If you have it in D5, you can pull it over into manual mode. In this mode, the transmission will use ONLY the gear you select sequentially with the shifter. Come to a stop, and it shifts into 1st. As you get going, it won't shift unless you snick the shifter forward (to select 2nd gear). Then once in 2, it stays in 2. Doesn't matter if you mat the accelerator or rev it up to redline. It'll just bounce off the rev limiter all day...until you select a different gear.
I LOVE the control it gives you over the transmission. And the beauty of it is, it's simple enough that anyone can use it, but offers enough control that an enthusiast can enjoy it. My mother-in-law had a 2004 Acura TL with this shifter (and now has a 2010 TL). If my mother-in-law can figure out how to put the car in drive, I think anyone can.
I personally wish all cars with automatics offered a shifter like this, at least as an option.
Why does it need up/down functionality in D5, yet still have positions available for 1-2 and 3,4. Seems like the whiole shifter was an after thought
It works quite well, actually, and it gives you a ton of control over the transmission, in a very compact space. Take the gated part first, the D5, 4, 3, and 2<>1. D5 is obviously full automatic mode, and it can shift through all five gears. D4 is as you would expect, full automatic mode, but it only shifts through the first four gears. 3 is the same as above, but it can use only the first three gears. 2<>1 means the transmission can use ONLY 2nd gear (for slippery starts or for creeping around a parking lot) or ONLY 1st gear.
If you have it in D5, you can pull it over into manual mode. In this mode, the transmission will use ONLY the gear you select sequentially with the shifter. Come to a stop, and it shifts into 1st. As you get going, it won't shift unless you snick the shifter forward (to select 2nd gear). Then once in 2, it stays in 2. Doesn't matter if you mat the accelerator or rev it up to redline. It'll just bounce off the rev limiter all day...until you select a different gear.
I LOVE the control it gives you over the transmission. And the beauty of it is, it's simple enough that anyone can use it, but offers enough control that an enthusiast can enjoy it. My mother-in-law had a 2004 Acura TL with this shifter (and now has a 2010 TL). If my mother-in-law can figure out how to put the car in drive, I think anyone can.
I personally wish all cars with automatics offered a shifter like this, at least as an option.
If I understand correctly, the auto shift manual that Honda uses has 2 axles instead of the 3 of planetary gear, so it would shift rougher than a planetary gear and puts more demand in the clutch packs. If you try to smooth it out with tricks (i.e. apply pressure in a smoother way) you risk more failures than using a softer shifting 3 axles / planetary gear to begin with.
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