Can Mobil Synthetic ATF be used insted of the Honda ATZ on the back of the M1 ATF it says it compatible but still afraid to use it because Honda says to only use the Honda ATZ in the tranny.
Honda ATZ replacement
- Thread starter TedSexington
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When I did a drain and refill on our Civic I used the Honda ATF Z-1 fluid because nobody could confirm for me that there was a good synthetic alternative.
No matter, the Z-1 is a very good product.
No matter, the Z-1 is a very good product.
I would use ATF-Z1. Amsoil / Mobil may be good products, but Honda really does have something weird about their ATF and ATs.
As far as "good product" - it is questionable. For example my Accord had very rough downshifting at ~35 K miles. After single drain/refill (3 Quarts), the symptoms became rare. Second drain/fill - and symptoms disappeared.
I decided to do yearly drains of Z1 and just in case put Magnefine filter.
As far as "good product" - it is questionable. For example my Accord had very rough downshifting at ~35 K miles. After single drain/refill (3 Quarts), the symptoms became rare. Second drain/fill - and symptoms disappeared.
I decided to do yearly drains of Z1 and just in case put Magnefine filter.
Originally Posted By: odessit
I would use ATF-Z1. Amsoil / Mobil may be good products, but Honda really does have something weird about their ATF and ATs.
As far as "good product" - it is questionable. For example my Accord had very rough downshifting at ~35 K miles. After single drain/refill (3 Quarts), the symptoms became rare. Second drain/fill - and symptoms disappeared.
I decided to do yearly drains of Z1 and just in case put Magnefine filter.
So what part of your story tells us that Z-1 is not a good product?
Your fluid got used/worn, you changed it, it worked better.
Sounds like a good product to me.
Was there a better outcome you were hoping for?
I would use ATF-Z1. Amsoil / Mobil may be good products, but Honda really does have something weird about their ATF and ATs.
As far as "good product" - it is questionable. For example my Accord had very rough downshifting at ~35 K miles. After single drain/refill (3 Quarts), the symptoms became rare. Second drain/fill - and symptoms disappeared.
I decided to do yearly drains of Z1 and just in case put Magnefine filter.
So what part of your story tells us that Z-1 is not a good product?
Your fluid got used/worn, you changed it, it worked better.
Sounds like a good product to me.
Was there a better outcome you were hoping for?
I was hoping for Z1 lasting more than 35K miles, however this is only 1 instance and may not represent the entire Z1 sample base.
We are back to square 1 - there is no conclusive evidence either way regarding either ATF...
We are back to square 1 - there is no conclusive evidence either way regarding either ATF...
Ah, I see. Our Civic had drain and refills at 30k, 60k, and 90k, with no tranny issues whatever, so I can't talk about the longevity of their fluid since it was refreshed at those intervals.
From what I've gathered, the longevity of synthetic ATF is one of the bigger selling points, and I would use some if I could be sure it was compatible.
From what I've gathered, the longevity of synthetic ATF is one of the bigger selling points, and I would use some if I could be sure it was compatible.
If you are under warranty I would stick to the Honda fluid.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: hate2work
No matter, the Z-1 is a very good product.
That's the first time I've heard that.
I changed my black Z1 out at 30,000 miles, used Amsoil ATD and never looked back.
No kidding? So you use a diesel oil in your crankcase ( the ACD ) and an ATF fluid ( the ATD )that's engineered specifically for the Allison TES-295 torque drive transmission fluid specification in your gas powered Acura?
Obviously it's been working for you, how/why did you start using that combo?
Originally Posted By: hate2work
No matter, the Z-1 is a very good product.
That's the first time I've heard that.
I changed my black Z1 out at 30,000 miles, used Amsoil ATD and never looked back.
No kidding? So you use a diesel oil in your crankcase ( the ACD ) and an ATF fluid ( the ATD )that's engineered specifically for the Allison TES-295 torque drive transmission fluid specification in your gas powered Acura?
Obviously it's been working for you, how/why did you start using that combo?
Originally Posted By: hate2work
Obviously it's been working for you, how/why did you start using that combo?
Because he thinks he knows better than the engineers who designed the Amsoil fluid.
Obviously it's been working for you, how/why did you start using that combo?
Because he thinks he knows better than the engineers who designed the Amsoil fluid.
Honda tranny shift hard, and ATF Z1 is a "soft" shifting fluid as it has the Zinc additives (not sure what type).
M1 is a "Hard shifting" fluid and many think using it in Honda is too rough, but if you don't mind the shift quality it will last longer than Honda.
Try a few fluid and see what you like, and if you don't want to experiment, just use ATF Z1. It is a good fluid and should last 30k.
M1 is a "Hard shifting" fluid and many think using it in Honda is too rough, but if you don't mind the shift quality it will last longer than Honda.
Try a few fluid and see what you like, and if you don't want to experiment, just use ATF Z1. It is a good fluid and should last 30k.
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
M1 is a "Hard shifting" fluid and many think using it in Honda is too rough, but if you don't mind the shift quality it will last longer than Honda.
That's not correct.
M1 ATF is now a multi-vehicle fluid that is being recommended for ATF-Z1 applications. It is designed to provide shift quality that is similar to the ATF-Z1 fluid.
M1 is a "Hard shifting" fluid and many think using it in Honda is too rough, but if you don't mind the shift quality it will last longer than Honda.
That's not correct.
M1 ATF is now a multi-vehicle fluid that is being recommended for ATF-Z1 applications. It is designed to provide shift quality that is similar to the ATF-Z1 fluid.
I completely agree with hate2work.
Also, I believe it was Mola who asked the simple question:
IF YOUR TRANNY has a drain plug, WHY WOULDN'T you USE IT?
Fresh, clean fluid is vital. An AT with a drain and fill maint. program is all anyone could ever dream of.
Now I do note that some have taken this to extreme dumping AT fluid every other oil change .... but that is just the 'Bob' in them.
An Accord in the family is at 240k.... I've done a drain an fill on it only twice, ever.
Fluid comes out all brownish ... refill .... done.
Also, I believe it was Mola who asked the simple question:
IF YOUR TRANNY has a drain plug, WHY WOULDN'T you USE IT?
Fresh, clean fluid is vital. An AT with a drain and fill maint. program is all anyone could ever dream of.
Now I do note that some have taken this to extreme dumping AT fluid every other oil change .... but that is just the 'Bob' in them.
An Accord in the family is at 240k.... I've done a drain an fill on it only twice, ever.
Fluid comes out all brownish ... refill .... done.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: hate2work
Obviously it's been working for you, how/why did you start using that combo?
Because he thinks he knows better than the engineers who designed the Amsoil fluid.
I do. I don't have price or CAFE standards to worry about.
Originally Posted By: hate2work
Obviously it's been working for you, how/why did you start using that combo?
Because he thinks he knows better than the engineers who designed the Amsoil fluid.
I do. I don't have price or CAFE standards to worry about.
Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: hate2work
No matter, the Z-1 is a very good product.
That's the first time I've heard that.
I changed my black Z1 out at 30,000 miles, used Amsoil ATD and never looked back.
No kidding? So you use a diesel oil in your crankcase ( the ACD ) and an ATF fluid ( the ATD )that's engineered specifically for the Allison TES-295 torque drive transmission fluid specification in your gas powered Acura?
Obviously it's been working for you, how/why did you start using that combo?
I live in CA where it never goes below freezing so a straight 30/10w-30 is completely acceptable. I get the benefits of no VIIs, lots of ZDDP, and a high HT/HS for it's viscosity. There is no downside of using this oil but there are a few good reasons to run it. Anyone who says you need to run the recommended 5w-20 in a 105 degree summer is crazy.
For the trans, I remember reading somewhere that the ATD had more Zinc which more closely matched the Honda Z1 fluid. What I wanted was to get as close to the Z1 add pack but a synthetic base fluid.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: hate2work
No matter, the Z-1 is a very good product.
That's the first time I've heard that.
I changed my black Z1 out at 30,000 miles, used Amsoil ATD and never looked back.
No kidding? So you use a diesel oil in your crankcase ( the ACD ) and an ATF fluid ( the ATD )that's engineered specifically for the Allison TES-295 torque drive transmission fluid specification in your gas powered Acura?
Obviously it's been working for you, how/why did you start using that combo?
I live in CA where it never goes below freezing so a straight 30/10w-30 is completely acceptable. I get the benefits of no VIIs, lots of ZDDP, and a high HT/HS for it's viscosity. There is no downside of using this oil but there are a few good reasons to run it. Anyone who says you need to run the recommended 5w-20 in a 105 degree summer is crazy.
For the trans, I remember reading somewhere that the ATD had more Zinc which more closely matched the Honda Z1 fluid. What I wanted was to get as close to the Z1 add pack but a synthetic base fluid.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
I do. I don't have price or CAFE standards to worry about.
You do realize that ATD (Transyd equivalent) did not pass Dexron-III(H) tests, right? And the difference in frictional properties between III(G) and III(H) are not related to fuel economy at all.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
For the trans, I remember reading somewhere that the ATD had more Zinc which more closely matched the Honda Z1 fluid. What I wanted was to get as close to the Z1 add pack but a synthetic base fluid.
Might want to double check on that one. There's no point in mimicking a factory fill if you do not understand what role Zinc has. As they say, there are many ways to skin a cat. Just because Honda uses Zinc to accomplish one function does not mean that you cannot use a different (or better) additive to achieve the same purpose.
Originally Posted By: joel95ex
Plus the honda fluid is cheaper than M1 or amsoil.
Honda fluid has a MSRP of over $8.00/qt now.
I do. I don't have price or CAFE standards to worry about.
You do realize that ATD (Transyd equivalent) did not pass Dexron-III(H) tests, right? And the difference in frictional properties between III(G) and III(H) are not related to fuel economy at all.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
For the trans, I remember reading somewhere that the ATD had more Zinc which more closely matched the Honda Z1 fluid. What I wanted was to get as close to the Z1 add pack but a synthetic base fluid.
Might want to double check on that one. There's no point in mimicking a factory fill if you do not understand what role Zinc has. As they say, there are many ways to skin a cat. Just because Honda uses Zinc to accomplish one function does not mean that you cannot use a different (or better) additive to achieve the same purpose.
Originally Posted By: joel95ex
Plus the honda fluid is cheaper than M1 or amsoil.
Honda fluid has a MSRP of over $8.00/qt now.
Did they even try to pass the Dextron tests with Transynd?
Doesn't matter though. I'm sure the full synthetic ATD is no worse than grp II Dextron III. I've got 60,000 miles on the ATD now, and I'm past the point where some of these trans start to fail at.
Doesn't matter though. I'm sure the full synthetic ATD is no worse than grp II Dextron III. I've got 60,000 miles on the ATD now, and I'm past the point where some of these trans start to fail at.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Did they even try to pass the Dextron tests with Transynd?
Doesn't matter though. I'm sure the full synthetic ATD is no worse than grp II Dextron III. I've got 60,000 miles on the ATD now, and I'm past the point where some of these trans start to fail at.
Yes they did.
Did you even read what I said? I wasn't only referring to the base stock, but also the differences in frictional properties.
Did they even try to pass the Dextron tests with Transynd?
Doesn't matter though. I'm sure the full synthetic ATD is no worse than grp II Dextron III. I've got 60,000 miles on the ATD now, and I'm past the point where some of these trans start to fail at.
Yes they did.
Did you even read what I said? I wasn't only referring to the base stock, but also the differences in frictional properties.
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