Honda ATZ fluid

[TTK]

Originally Posted By: AcuraTech
Frequent fluid changes will not save these transmissions. Poor design, not poor fluid. The clutch linings will get chewed up causing it to slip and/or the torque converter will fail internally causing a shudder at around 30mph.

04 and up generally have a lot fewer problems than previous. 03 was an in between year, some fail some don't. 00-02 are the worst years.


Do you have any data to support your claim...ie, poor design? Such as, percent of transmission failures in honda vehicles for the last 5 years?

 

[chrome]

Originally Posted By: TTK
Originally Posted By: AcuraTech
Frequent fluid changes will not save these transmissions. Poor design, not poor fluid. The clutch linings will get chewed up causing it to slip and/or the torque converter will fail internally causing a shudder at around 30mph.

04 and up generally have a lot fewer problems than previous. 03 was an in between year, some fail some don't. 00-02 are the worst years.


Do you have any data to support your claim...ie, poor design? Such as, percent of transmission failures in honda vehicles for the last 5 years?


It has been a very common sight on Acura and Honda forums to read about transmission failures, specifically with the 4 speed (undersize carrier bearings) and 5 speed (3rd gear clutch pack, torque converter, 2nd gear cooling). The problems arises when these transmissions are mated to the more powerful V6 engine, such as in the Odyssey, Accord and TL.

 

[TTK]

Originally Posted By: chrome
Originally Posted By: TTK
Originally Posted By: AcuraTech
Frequent fluid changes will not save these transmissions. Poor design, not poor fluid. The clutch linings will get chewed up causing it to slip and/or the torque converter will fail internally causing a shudder at around 30mph.

04 and up generally have a lot fewer problems than previous. 03 was an in between year, some fail some don't. 00-02 are the worst years.


Do you have any data to support your claim...ie, poor design? Such as, percent of transmission failures in honda vehicles for the last 5 years?


It has been a very common sight on Acura and Honda forums to read about transmission failures, specifically with the 4 speed (undersize carrier bearings) and 5 speed (3rd gear clutch pack, torque converter, 2nd gear cooling). The problems arises when these transmissions are mated to the more powerful V6 engine, such as in the Odyssey, Accord and TL.


The data I have seen shows a 2% failure rate in 03 Honda vehicles. And many of the repairs have been partially paid by Honda up to 100,000 miles. Are there any transmission failure rate data for other vehicles? Just trying to compare different manufacturers and their failure rates.

 

[chrome]

Originally Posted By: TTK
The data I have seen shows a 2% failure rate in 03 Honda vehicles. And many of the repairs have been partially paid by Honda up to 100,000 miles. Are there any transmission failure rate data for other vehicles? Just trying to compare different manufacturers and their failure rates.


Can you point us to quoted source for 2% transmission failure rate for 03 Honda vehicles? I am quite interested to see if this figure was released by Honda, and which model and power train variant was most affected. Is the 2% just 03 Accords & TLs, or 03 Honda vehicles (all models)? Bear in mind, Honda sold many model in 2003, in which the Accord and TL could only represent, say 10% of total vehicle sales. 2% failure would then mean 20% failure rates in Accords and TLs?

 

[TTK]

Originally Posted By: chrome
Originally Posted By: TTK
The data I have seen shows a 2% failure rate in 03 Honda vehicles. And many of the repairs have been partially paid by Honda up to 100,000 miles. Are there any transmission failure rate data for other vehicles? Just trying to compare different manufacturers and their failure rates.


Can you point us to quoted source for 2% transmission failure rate for 03 Honda vehicles? I am quite interested to see if this figure was released by Honda, and which model and power train variant was most affected. Is the 2% just 03 Accords & TLs, or 03 Honda vehicles (all models)? Bear in mind, Honda sold many model in 2003, in which the Accord and TL could only represent, say 10% of total vehicle sales. 2% failure would then mean 20% failure rates in Accords and TLs?


It was a Honda document that explained the extended warranty on the 2003 Accord vehicles, and quoted the 2% failure rate. I can't seem to find it again to point you to it. I get your point, but can't remember the exact wording. However, if the failure rate had been 20%, on the Accord or the TL, neither would be on the market today, most likely. If I find it later I will do another reply.

 

[05Blazer]

I just wanted to own up to what I said about changing the ATF fluid every 10k. I was wrong. The manual says to do a drain and fill 3 times.
I think I read that 1 every 10k on the Honda Odyssey forum. Sorry for my missquote.

 

[cordeen]

Originally Posted By: AcuraTech
Frequent fluid changes will not save these transmissions. Poor design, not poor fluid. The clutch linings will get chewed up causing it to slip and/or the torque converter will fail internally causing a shudder at around 30mph.

04 and up generally have a lot fewer problems than previous. 03 was an in between year, some fail some don't. 00-02 are the worst years.



I have a '99, 95K and so far so good. Do you know if this was a good or bad year for Honda.

 

[05Blazer]

99 is the 4 speed trans so I think you are okay. It was in 02-04 5-Speeds that have the lube design issues.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
99 is the 4 speed trans so I think you are okay. It was in 02-04 5-Speeds that have the lube design issues.

99-01 Odyssey transmissions were extremely unreliable. The 02-04 5-speed autos needed the oil jet update, but as long as that was installed they are fine.

 

[benjamming]

Mike,

Are you talking just about the Odyssey when discussing the 5-speed AT?

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: benjamming
Mike,

Are you talking just about the Odyssey when discussing the 5-speed AT?

Yes. The 02-04 Odyssey 5-speed autos did not experience the same issues that the 00-03 CL/TL transmissions did.

 

[thrace]

Quote:
The 02-04 Odyssey 5-speed autos did not experience the same issues that the 00-03 CL/TL transmissions did.
To clarify. the 5 speed Odyssey 2002-2004 did suffer the same type of problems as the CL and TL of similar years. Just not quite as frequent. Consumer Reports reliability chart which can be seen every April issue shows 2002 Odyssey with a black spot (worst rating). 2003 is worse than average. I speak from personal experience. 2002 Odyssey. Does 10K ATF change with Z1 only help durability? Did not help me. Tried that, still failed early, 70K. Very weak transmission.
Two friends with 2002-03 Odyssey have had the same problem. One just farther than 36k miles. One higher mileage. Common problem.

 

[cordeen]

Originally Posted By: cordeen
Originally Posted By: AcuraTech
Frequent fluid changes will not save these transmissions. Poor design, not poor fluid. The clutch linings will get chewed up causing it to slip and/or the torque converter will fail internally causing a shudder at around 30mph.

04 and up generally have a lot fewer problems than previous. 03 was an in between year, some fail some don't. 00-02 are the worst years.



I have a '99, 95K and so far so good. Do you know if this was a good or bad year for Honda.


Should have added it's a four cylinder Accord.

 

[05Blazer]

All this negativity makes me really nervouse about my recent Honda Certified Used purchase on our '03' Odyssey with 70k original 1 owner miles. I just did the 2nd of a drain and fill since we bought the van and was planning to do the 3rd drain and fill next OCI around 77k miles since I just put Pennzoil Platinum in it. Is there nothing that can be done to prolong this? The lube recal was done at about 15k miles and was last serviced at 30k. I got a great deal on the van with the 12 month/12k miles warranty. Should I trade it in right before warranty is over? I dont need to be hit with a multi $k dollar replacement down the road as im sure the 105k maintenance for the timing belt, water pump, spark plugs, etc will cost a pretty penny.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
All this negativity makes me really nervouse about my recent Honda Certified Used purchase on our '03' Odyssey with 70k original 1 owner miles. I just did the 2nd of a drain and fill since we bought the van and was planning to do the 3rd drain and fill next OCI around 77k miles since I just put Pennzoil Platinum in it. Is there nothing that can be done to prolong this? The lube recal was done at about 15k miles and was last serviced at 30k. I got a great deal on the van with the 12 month/12k miles warranty. Should I trade it in right before warranty is over? I dont need to be hit with a multi $k dollar replacement down the road as im sure the 105k maintenance for the timing belt, water pump, spark plugs, etc will cost a pretty penny.

The 105k service for the timing belt, water pump, hydraulic tensioner, spark plugs and valve adjustment runs $1200.

The 02-04 Odyssey transmissions are not as reliable as some transmissions, but they are nowhere near as unreliable as the older CL and TL units.

With proper maintenance, it's likely that you'll get at least 150k before needing a rebuild.

 

[thrace]

Quote:
With proper maintenance, it's likely that you'll get at least 150k before needing a rebuild.
Got about 70K on the original Odyssey transmission. I did more than proper maintenance with ATF Z1 at about every 10K miles. The owners manual says every 30K miles severe service or regular service 45K first ATF change then every 30K afterward. My friends who broke at just over 36K miles and well over 50K both did whatever the dealer recommended. I wish the owner well but for myself and my friends, we got nowhere near 150K miles on original transmissions.

 

[benjamming]

thrace,

Which year AT was that?

 

[Dominik]

Acura CL-S '02 driven hard at times 151,600km so almost 94,000miles nothing wrong yet, all original. Two drain/refills a year Z1 + AMS ATF 2:1 or 1:1 nice shifts sometimes when shifted into 'R' on a -20 winter morning it may jerk a bit, other than that I don't even know it's there, What say you??.