02 Accord V6 auto just turned 50K. As a rule of my thumb, I always change trans. fluids every 50K as it has worked well for me in the past. However, these were older vehicles. Do you think I should go ahead and drop the trans fluid and replace with new? From all I can gather here, everyone pretty much suggests staying with the Honda ATF-Z1 fluid. Is that stuff synthetic? Does any know? Has any one tried anything different than the Honda fluid and have good, if not better, fly by the seat results? How much of it will it take? I don't look forward to pouring the fluid into that hard to get at dipstick hole. I am not going to drop the pan. The trans. has a drain plug in it. This car is 98% highway miles.
Honda ATF-Z1
- Thread starter Schmoe
- Start date
- Status
My 02 Odyssey indicates to change at 45K normal service or 30K severe service. There are synthetics out there that meet the ATF-Z1 requirements. AMSOIL is one...
Hey Schmoe! (I feel like one of the stooges!)
I also have a 2002 Accord V6 auto and noticed that there is what appears to be a fill plug on the top of the tranny, kinda between the dipstick and fender well at the driver side strut. It is right in the middle of a clear spot, so it looks like you could even get a funnel to sit in it. It has the words ATF written on it.
I can sympathize with you if you had to pour into that crowded, tiny, dipstick hole!
I also have a 2002 Accord V6 auto and noticed that there is what appears to be a fill plug on the top of the tranny, kinda between the dipstick and fender well at the driver side strut. It is right in the middle of a clear spot, so it looks like you could even get a funnel to sit in it. It has the words ATF written on it.
I can sympathize with you if you had to pour into that crowded, tiny, dipstick hole!
On older Hondas every 30,000 miles was pretty much required.
With newer Hondas, and using ATF-Z1, the severest schedule is to change it for the first time at 60,000 miles and then every 30,000 after that.
The normal schedule is 120K and then every 90K.
I think there are three major justifyable reasons why the interval is so long on the newer Honda automatics:
(1) For good gas mileage, Honda has cut back the force exerted through the torque converter during idle, whereby also reducing the amount of heat generated. (You have probably noticed Hondas roll back on hills really easily these days).
(2) On the direct ignition engines, Honda has dialed-in the ignition retard during shifting so well that the clutches have an easy time of it. You'll notice how smoothly they shift these days cause they eliminated all the shifting jerk.
(3) ATF-Z1 is a great fluid designed to work exclusively with Honda's transmissions.
With newer Hondas, and using ATF-Z1, the severest schedule is to change it for the first time at 60,000 miles and then every 30,000 after that.
The normal schedule is 120K and then every 90K.
I think there are three major justifyable reasons why the interval is so long on the newer Honda automatics:
(1) For good gas mileage, Honda has cut back the force exerted through the torque converter during idle, whereby also reducing the amount of heat generated. (You have probably noticed Hondas roll back on hills really easily these days).
(2) On the direct ignition engines, Honda has dialed-in the ignition retard during shifting so well that the clutches have an easy time of it. You'll notice how smoothly they shift these days cause they eliminated all the shifting jerk.
(3) ATF-Z1 is a great fluid designed to work exclusively with Honda's transmissions.
On 6th Generation Accords/2nd gen TL's, the thing you have to look out for is their failing trannies. In fact, Honda/Acura has extended the warranty on the AT for these vehicles after numerous problems.
With that said, I am a firm believer in frequent changes of the ATF. On my Acura, I change my fluid out every 15K miles, rather than the recommended 30K interval. Also, I prefer to use Honda ATF because 1) It's not too expensive at $2.50/qt 2) The car shifts much better that with regular ATF.
I've never considered synthetic ATF, and will prob stick with the Honda fluid.
With that said, I am a firm believer in frequent changes of the ATF. On my Acura, I change my fluid out every 15K miles, rather than the recommended 30K interval. Also, I prefer to use Honda ATF because 1) It's not too expensive at $2.50/qt 2) The car shifts much better that with regular ATF.
I've never considered synthetic ATF, and will prob stick with the Honda fluid.
I’ve also looked for a good synthetic substitute for ATF-Z1 but have never felt comfortable trying them; I’ve heard too many horror stories about Honda trannies that don’t like anything but the genuine article. Especially with newer models that specify ATF-Z1, you get the smoothest shifts when you use ATF-Z1; some older Honda/Acuras seem to do fine with Dexron II (?)
My 2000 Acura 3.2TL gets a trans fluid drain & fill at every oil change, it only requires 3 qts so it’s not expensive. I use Honda fluid and so far I haven’t had any problems.
I too noticed how my car rolls back when I start off on a hill, I didn’t realize that’s the way the TC was designed/setup (you learn something new everyday!).
My 2000 Acura 3.2TL gets a trans fluid drain & fill at every oil change, it only requires 3 qts so it’s not expensive. I use Honda fluid and so far I haven’t had any problems.
I too noticed how my car rolls back when I start off on a hill, I didn’t realize that’s the way the TC was designed/setup (you learn something new everyday!).
The dealer by me wants almost $6 per quart for the ATF-Z1!
Find a different dealer. Changed out the trans. fluid last weekend. It was 4 something a quart, from the dealer. Interesting fill hole location, better have some skinny, long necked funnels available. The owners manual says change out every 100K, but that is WAY too long for any transmission. Does anybody know what that plastic looking thing is that is attached to the trans. drain plug? That plug had some sludge looking stuff attached to the end of it, but it wasn't metal. Some type of sludge attractor or something? Anyway, I wish my other cars had a drain plug as conviently located as the Honda. It was just too easy.
On my tranny, the plug has a magnetic tip.
My local dealer usually charges about $4/qt, but every 6 months or so, they have it on sale for $2.50/qt. I just buy a couple of cases and it lasts me for a year.
My local dealer usually charges about $4/qt, but every 6 months or so, they have it on sale for $2.50/qt. I just buy a couple of cases and it lasts me for a year.
There is no pan on that Honda transaxle. There's no user replaceable filter either. Internal screen service require complete disassembly. There's a bottom-facing drain plug screwed directly into the case on the passenger side. It takes a 3/8" inch drive. (no socket, just the square profile drive) A breaker bar is recommended and you may need to "help" it with a 3' length of 1/2" pipe slipped over the handle for more torque. It loosens with the expected counter-clockwise rotation. Do NOT attempt to replace the plug as tightly as you found it* - it's not necessary and stripping the threads in the aluminum case is guaranteed to make for a real bad day. You can usually re-use the sealing washer despite what Honda says, but have a new one on hand just in case.)
*There may have been thread-lock applied at the factory. When I changed the ATF out on my '96 Accord, I re-used the original sealing washer and did NOT use any thread lock. I by-guessed-and-by-golly'd to about the torque I'd have tightened a spark plug to in an aluminum cylinder head. Subsequently, I never had any evidence of leakage.
*There may have been thread-lock applied at the factory. When I changed the ATF out on my '96 Accord, I re-used the original sealing washer and did NOT use any thread lock. I by-guessed-and-by-golly'd to about the torque I'd have tightened a spark plug to in an aluminum cylinder head. Subsequently, I never had any evidence of leakage.
It's not plastic. It's a ceramic magnet permanently attached to the transmission drain plug. The "sludge looking stuff" was indeed metal - ferrous, chromium, and/or cobalt alloyed shavings safely trapped and rendered incapable of causing mischief to your transaxle's innards.
[ March 17, 2004, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
Schmoe,
Parts guy at the dealer said that the drain and fill is 2.8 quarts. Is that what you found also? Are you planning or did you do the 3 drain & fill cycles?
Parts guy at the dealer said that the drain and fill is 2.8 quarts. Is that what you found also? Are you planning or did you do the 3 drain & fill cycles?
It was exactly 3 quarts. I first thought I didn't have enough, but it was right on. Nope, no drain and fill cycle. IMHO, and after some indepth reading on this site, I summized that if the trans. fluid is good and hot, I would just let it drain completely for about an hour, then close everything back up and re-fill. I figured if the manual is calling for 100K, that changing it out at 50K has got to be better than the whole rinse-lather-repeat 3 times cycle. I was shocked that the new fluid was bright red and the 50K fluid was pretty black.
The drain is on the driver side of the trans, not the passenger side. You'll surely need some type of handle extension if your going to use a regular 3/8 ratchet. It was tight. Came off pretty easy, but putting it back on, don't over tighten it, as it is aluminum. To tighten it, I just used the regular ratchet without an extension and hand tightened it. It's just like the engine drain plug, no sense in torquing the be-jesus out of it.
The drain is on the driver side of the trans, not the passenger side. You'll surely need some type of handle extension if your going to use a regular 3/8 ratchet. It was tight. Came off pretty easy, but putting it back on, don't over tighten it, as it is aluminum. To tighten it, I just used the regular ratchet without an extension and hand tightened it. It's just like the engine drain plug, no sense in torquing the be-jesus out of it.
You're absolutely right! I was referencing my memory of my '96 Accord equipped with the I-4 engine - completely bass-ackwards from the V-6 layout.
I did a search and still confused about the exact total amount of ATF held in my '94' Accord transmission.I have 6 oz of Auto-RX in ransmission and as dealer recommends I'm ready do a drain and fill X's 3 and thought it held total of 9 qts,but from reading here,only holds total of 3...I've talked to more then one mechanic locally and each say something different.I have 9 qts of Honda ATF and if total of 3,the x 3 would certainly do a better flush and clean.Before, someone was saying like using the Auto RX in the engine,could drive several miles between the 3 change interval for a better rinse and clean cycle..thanks
Just realized the Honda manual may have the transmission specs.Says capcity n US qts is 3.4..Tones's dealer said capacity was 2.8 qts and Schmoe said his Honda took 3 qts..Mind being a '94' I assume the diffrence is the year
Hi EJ,
I have a 2002 Accord V6 automatic so I assume the capacity difference is related to the year. I also don't know what the total system holds, but the manual and other sources on the internet state that the 3x drain and fill is Honda's definition of a flush.
You may already be aware of this, but each drain and fill will not remove all of the fluid, but only 3 (and in your case close to 4?) quarts of the total at a time. You still have some fluid up in the torque converter and transmission. Each drain and fill is diluting the old fluid with new fluid, thus the need for 3 drain and fill cylcles to replace the majority of it.
Are you also going to use the ATF Z-1 fluid? Is this what the dealer recommends to cover previous models? Just curious.
[ March 19, 2004, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: Tones ]
I have a 2002 Accord V6 automatic so I assume the capacity difference is related to the year. I also don't know what the total system holds, but the manual and other sources on the internet state that the 3x drain and fill is Honda's definition of a flush.
You may already be aware of this, but each drain and fill will not remove all of the fluid, but only 3 (and in your case close to 4?) quarts of the total at a time. You still have some fluid up in the torque converter and transmission. Each drain and fill is diluting the old fluid with new fluid, thus the need for 3 drain and fill cylcles to replace the majority of it.
Are you also going to use the ATF Z-1 fluid? Is this what the dealer recommends to cover previous models? Just curious.
[ March 19, 2004, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: Tones ]
Thanks Tones,
My confusion was when my manual says total capacity of 3.4 qts.,guess it's referring to what you are able to drain out,not the exact total....It certainly can't be much more..Why I ask,I think it was Terry who mentioned if using the Auto-RX in Trans. you could like the engine,for the cleaning and rinse cycle,instead of driving around the block between each drain/change,put some mileage on between the 3 changes..Any thoughts
My confusion was when my manual says total capacity of 3.4 qts.,guess it's referring to what you are able to drain out,not the exact total....It certainly can't be much more..Why I ask,I think it was Terry who mentioned if using the Auto-RX in Trans. you could like the engine,for the cleaning and rinse cycle,instead of driving around the block between each drain/change,put some mileage on between the 3 changes..Any thoughts
Yes,gOing to use the Honda ATF Z-1..My '94' manual says:Honda fluid or an equivalent DEXRON II type..I figures although a little more in cost would use the the Honda ATF
- Status
