Honda and Nissan to Merge?

[SC Maintenance]

Nissan seems to be highly regarded elsewhere than the US. At least in countries where Japanese vehicles are the most popular.
I don't think Nissan would still be in the US market if it wasn't for the subprime lending / leasing they did. I have to imagine , fleet sales aside, the US market is more expensive to them than other markets.

We have specific US models that aren't sold in other markets. I'm sure platform sharing helps some to bring the costs down but I imagine the US market isn't their cheapest to sell in.

Your more than likely correct.

They have been attempting to fix this. The Rogue, Versa and Sentra are global platforms. The Armada has been since 2016 (shared with the Patrol platform).

The Frontier is nice, but I wonder if splitting it from the Navara was worth the cost?

Ghosn wasted a ton of money on building capacity for 7M units a year which they never got close to. Focus is everything. They lost it a while ago.

 

[PF52]

Nissan seems to be highly regarded elsewhere than the US. At least in countries where Japanese vehicles are the most popular.

+2

Nissan is huge in Mexico, for example. I'd pick Nissan and VW as number 1 and 2 in Mexico, if I had to guess. I am sure someone will chime in with the actual numbers.

 

[wag123]

I don't think Nissan would still be in the US market if it wasn't for the subprime lending / leasing they did.

I disagree. IMO Nissan would have been better served by NOT concentrating on selling as many vehicles as possible by relying on subprime lending instead concentrating on improving engineering and product quality and selling fewer more sought-after vehicles at better margins (like Toyota and Honda do). Subprime buyers only really care about qualifying for financing, the down payment, and the monthly payment. Manufacturers are hurt very badly in the long run because these buyers tend to abuse and neglect their vehicles then discard them at the first sign of trouble, often through repossession, destroying the reputation and resale value of the manufacturer's products as a result.

 

[CKN]

Very likely true, but this is a USA issue. The rest of the world - for the most part - doesn't do sub-prime or its a very small portion of the lending pool.

Almost every dealer regardless of brand has sub prime lenders on their roster. That's how they sell their sub $10,000 vehicles. You don't have a lot of sub prime customers walking up to Mercedes and Volvo lots. But GM, Ford, even Toyota, sure.

 

[fdcg27]

Honda has lost its way over the years.
In the eighties and nineties, Hondas were really special as driver's cars at a budget price. They were also quite durable and trouble free.
The last really good Accord was the Gen 7, while the Gen 8 was nothing special to drive, although the one I put 96K on in six years remains now in the hands of a son and continues to serve without issue.
In terms of driving entertainment, the last really fun Accord was the Gen 7.
My Gen 10 HAH is a good car to drive, but being built on the same platform as the Civic leaves it lacking in interior room, particularly width.
My only experience with Nissan products involved a 280Z 2+2 five speed I bought used and a rental Versa sedan more recently.
The Z steered like a truck but was fun to drive and the six made wonderful noises. The Versa was a pretty okay cheap car with decent room, ride and AC. A screaming deal for what you can buy one for new.
Oh, I forgot, I did have a 1600 Sport briefly, and made money selling it. A harsh riding MGB imitator that was never all that valuable at the time, but probably would be now.
Honda+Nissan?
Maybe not as bad as I thought at first. Both do need to get volume up to survive.

 

[Nick1994]

Nissan seems to be highly regarded elsewhere than the US. At least in countries where Japanese vehicles are the most popular.
I don't think Nissan would still be in the US market if it wasn't for the subprime lending / leasing they did. I have to imagine , fleet sales aside, the US market is more expensive to them than other markets.

We have specific US models that aren't sold in other markets. I'm sure platform sharing helps some to bring the costs down but I imagine the US market isn't their cheapest to sell in.

The U.S. car market is pretty different than much of the world. In the past 2 years I’ve been to England, Wales, Netherlands, France, and the Philippines. Something they all have in common is simple cars. They seem to view cars as appliances and really don’t care about them like we do in the U.S. They also don’t seem to care about the tech and comfort etc.

Nissan is about as boring as can be and their tech is super outdated. IMO it’s why they can’t even touch a Hyundai/Nissan.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Is this a cultural thing because I can't see why Honda would want to take on all that debt?


https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/23/business/nissan-honda-merge-automakers-intl-hnk

 

[SC Maintenance]

Is this a cultural thing because I can't see why Honda would want to take on all that debt?


https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/23/business/nissan-honda-merge-automakers-intl-hnk

Honda has more debt than Nissan. Even mighty Toyota has almost double the debt of the two combined. Its likely all denominated in Yen and interest rates are low, I doubt the debt is much of a concern.

Nissan has struggled with cash flow lately. There making lots of cuts. All manufacturers are struggling with competing against Chinese EV's. I think there all trying to survive.

The looser will likely be North America. Both companies have a number of plants here. If they merge likely a few will need to close.

 

[rijndael]

I think this sheds some light ... it's not just about the US Market. China's market is also at play, and probably more important.

BYD and Tesla are hurting them.

https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/business/companies/20241223-229240/

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Honda has more debt than Nissan. Even mighty Toyota has almost double the debt of the two combined. Its likely all denominated in Yen and interest rates are low, I doubt the debt is much of a concern.

Nissan has struggled with cash flow lately. There making lots of cuts. All manufacturers are struggling with competing against Chinese EV's. I think there all trying to survive.

The looser will likely be North America. Both companies have a number of plants here. If they merge likely a few will need to close.

Sure but why bother bailing out a competitor?

 

[rijndael]

Sure but why bother bailing out a competitor?

Because you're both on the chopping block, globally, if you don't figure out how to compete in the new market.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 

[Sayjac]

Saw it this AM on Yahoo news feed. As quickly as this happened from when "talks" announced, to done deal today, have to believe in the works for longer. Also, that it was likely a done deal when "talks" made public. I would also 'speculate' that the Japan Gov't involved here in some form. As for the results, imo got to be better for Nissan than Renault. Economies of scale drive much in business. As for Honda, using a cliche', it is what it is.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Sure but why bother bailing out a competitor?

The competitor is BYD and Toyota, and an overall shrinking car market.

Mergers are often fraught with evil so who knows what happens. But if there going to compete with BYD and the other Chinese companies they need to scale up EV drivetrains. EV drivetrains are a pure commodity. You can't have 20 different companies producing a commodity - the big players will thrash them, I can rattle off 20 industries where that has happened, and it doesn't take long.

EV's are an appliance.

Also, of all the Japanese companies Nissan and Honda don't overlap as much as most think - both in vehicle types and also countries where they are strong.

 

[joekingcorvette]

Mitsubishi might join in too. Honda could use the truck frame from the Nissan and build a Honda truck for towing. All the companies can combine their hybrid/electric technology and put it to better use. I think part of the problem with the auto industry is there are too many auto companies competing. 30 years ago most people didn't know about Hyundai or Kia. There is talk about lowering the prices on new vehicles but I am not sure how they can do that. Zero percent interest would help sales too. I hope reliability doesn't suffer on the Honda brand since it's always been know to be fairly dependable compared to some other brands.

 

[rijndael]

Honda could use the truck frame from the Nissan and build a Honda truck for towing.

If I were betting man, I'd bet this is pretty low on their priority list. Worrying about the US truck market is a silly endeavor, and Nissan is famliar with that difficulty, when you're focused on EVs in the non-North American market.

 

[SC Maintenance]

If I were betting man, I'd bet this is pretty low on their priority list. Worrying about the US truck market is a silly endeavor, and Nissan is famliar with that difficulty, when you're focused on EVs in the non-North American market.

The US truck market is tough. However the Navara is popular all over the rest of the world and second only I believe to the Hilux. Frontier has historically outsold everything but the Taco here also. Its a niche market, but one that Honda doesn't play in at all.

There are lots of other categories where Nissan does well and Honda has little to no offering, like the NV200 little unibody delivery van, that are used everywhere on earth except here. I don't think Honda has much offering there, unless I am mistaken.

Niche markets for sure, but they add up I suppose.

 

[joekingcorvette]

Honda has a new vehicle called the Prologue and it's an all electric Chevy trailblazer with Honda badges. If these companies to merge it might be smart to do your homework before buying the Honda badge. They have a Civic hybrid that is for sale now too. The hybrid and EV market is really hot right now because everyone knows gasoline will not stay as low as it is right now.

 

[Pablo]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/honda-nissan-formalize-merger-talks-101816663.html

"
The two Japanese auto manufacturers signed a basic agreement for merger talks on Monday and held a joint media briefing in Tokyo. Honda also said it will buy back as much as ¥1.1 trillion yen ($7 billion) of its own shares.

A holding company will be created to house the new entity and should be listed by August 2026, the firms said, adding that Honda will be able to nominate a majority of the new company’s board of directors.

Mitsubishi Motors Corp., which is 24.5% owned by Nissan, also signed the memorandum of understanding and will likely be part of the group with a final decision on that expected by the end of January."

 

[Dave Hess]

Terrible idea for Honda and Nissan to merge.

 

[wag123]

IMO this will not bring Nissan up to Honda's level, it will bring Honda down to Nissan's level.