Honda adds 440,000 cars to recall over airbags

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 Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Honda is supposed to be spotless, why not hold them to a higher standard?
If you hold someone to a higher standard b/c of their reputation, then it's not really a standard is it? A standard doesn't bend.
 
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 Originally Posted By: benjamming
 Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Honda is supposed to be spotless, why not hold them to a higher standard?
If you hold someone to a higher standard b/c of their reputation, then it's not really a standard is it? A standard doesn't bend.
All manufacturers have recalls. Recalls are a good thing (although a pain in the butt when you need to bring to the dealer). Companies are fixing issues not anticipated during design and build. Sometimes it is voluntary, other times they are forced into it. Again, this has nothing to do with overall build quality and longevity, etc. Do we write off Ford after their recall to fix a problem that caused vehicles to burst into flames or had tires that caused SUVs to flip over and kill their passengers? What about Saturn that had a recall over an little issue about rear wheels falling off Vues while driving down the road?
 
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 Originally Posted By: cousincletus
 Originally Posted By: JHZR2
No... not necessarily. Our integra ran 180k miles before it got rusty and we sold it. Still see it on the roads. It is the perception of quality which, compared to the vehicles I drive, is OK at best. 180k on our integra is nothing special to me. And, considering the maintenance it has required compared to our >>200k toyota and MB diesels, as well as other assorted >>100k domestic and european cars, doesn't make me very impressed. So, as I said before, due to the overall high level of swooning over Honda, I hold them to a higher standard. They came through OK for us, however we did not buy another. They make a great little tiller, a very nice lawnmower and power washer engine. Heck, their engines are great (though I do see more honda oil burners than any other make). Their cars are nothing special to me. Thus, things like this recall do not suprise me.
I would still take a B&S or Kohler engine any day over a Honda.
I have a B&S engine on my snowblower and so far it is working well. I have a Honda engine on my lawnmower also no problems. No experience with Kohler (other then a sink). Previously had a lawnmower with a Tecumsah (spelling?) engine. It was not terrible but did have issues. Small Honda engines have a reputation for exceptional power, reliability and fuel economy. They are supposed to be difficult to work on and expensive to repair (compared to the older B&S engines). Another issue and OT is where the engines/equipment is being made. I believe I read that many of the B&S engines are now being made in China.
 
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Again, this has nothing to do with overall build quality and longevity, etc. Do we write off Ford after their recall to fix a problem that caused vehicles to burst into flames or had tires that caused SUVs to flip over and kill their passengers? What about Saturn that had a recall over an little issue about rear wheels falling off Vues while driving down the road? I do......
 
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 Originally Posted By: Cardinal49
Another issue and OT is where the engines/equipment is being made. I believe I read that many of the B&S engines are now being made in China.
Kohler is sourcing engines from China, Honda's been making the GX series in Thailand for a while - the Thai Honda engines are just as good as the Japanese ones.
 
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 Originally Posted By: Cardinal49
What about Saturn that had a recall over an little issue about rear wheels falling off Vues while driving down the road?
There was no such thing. It would have taken a stunt in the likes of Joie Chitwood to bend the lateral links of those VUEs. The Govt. did it using a device that attempts to cause a rollover by basically turning the steering wheel faster than an actual driver could.
 
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 Originally Posted By: moklock
 Originally Posted By: Cardinal49
What about Saturn that had a recall over an little issue about rear wheels falling off Vues while driving down the road?
There was no such thing. It would have taken a stunt in the likes of Joie Chitwood to bend the lateral links of those VUEs. The Govt. did it using a device that attempts to cause a rollover by basically turning the steering wheel faster than an actual driver could.
Saturn Vue • GM Recalls Saturn VUE • VUE Suspension Collapses in Government Tests August 5, 2004 General Motors is voluntarily recalling the Saturn VUE to fix a problem with the rear suspension. The recall affects 246,433 VUEs in the 2002-2004 model years, including 231,123 in the United States and 15,310 in Canada. It all started when a Saturn VUE owner wrote to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) to complain that the rear wheels of his car collapsed on a tight turn, causing the vehicle to roll over. The agency decided to conduct a test of its own, taking tight turns at 45 mph, and sure enough, the rear suspension collapsed and the car rolled over. The same thing happened when a two-wheel drive model of the VUE was put through the same test.
 
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 Originally Posted By: benjamming
 Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Honda is supposed to be spotless, why not hold them to a higher standard?
If you hold someone to a higher standard b/c of their reputation, then it's not really a standard is it? A standard doesn't bend.
Tell that to my boss...me and a coworker are both the same grade-level, but I'm held to a higher standard because I get the job done! OK, back on-topic. I believe the higher standard is also referred to as "raising the bar".
 
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 Originally Posted By: opus1
 Originally Posted By: benjamming
 Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Honda is supposed to be spotless, why not hold them to a higher standard?
If you hold someone to a higher standard b/c of their reputation, then it's not really a standard is it? A standard doesn't bend.
Tell that to my boss...me and a coworker are both the same grade-level, but I'm held to a higher standard because I get the job done! OK, back on-topic. I believe the higher standard is also referred to as "raising the bar".
When the reputation is there, the reality must also be there to back it up. That's fair. If it was strictly a consumer perception of Honda's trouble-free and reliability reputation it wouldnt be fair, but Honda spends billions each year TELLING people how much more reliable they are over the other guys, so it's totally fair to expect them to deliver. When they don't, and get progressvely worse as time passes, people will call it out.
 
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Why does this ALWAYS turn into a ****ing match? Who really knows, an airbag inflator is such a specialty part that they're probably outsourced from another manufacturer anyway. The other thing is that very often with recalls like this, it may only affect a few hundred cars within a certain VIN range of that model. Every major car manufacturer has had safety recalls before, Honda is no exception. Whoever the mental giant was that commented about Honda cheapening their cars to turn a buck, think again. Trying to put junky airbags in cars just to save a nickel is a fools game.
 
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 Originally Posted By: element_42
 Originally Posted By: opus1
 Originally Posted By: benjamming
 Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Honda is supposed to be spotless, why not hold them to a higher standard?
If you hold someone to a higher standard b/c of their reputation, then it's not really a standard is it? A standard doesn't bend.
Tell that to my boss...me and a coworker are both the same grade-level, but I'm held to a higher standard because I get the job done! OK, back on-topic. I believe the higher standard is also referred to as "raising the bar".
When the reputation is there, the reality must also be there to back it up. That's fair. If it was strictly a consumer perception of Honda's trouble-free and reliability reputation it wouldnt be fair, but Honda spends billions each year TELLING people how much more reliable they are over the other guys, so it's totally fair to expect them to deliver. When they don't, and get progressvely worse as time passes, people will call it out.
Not looking to turn this into a Honda relaibility thread. However, Honda and Toyota ARE more reliable then the other guys and have years and years of data to prove it. This does not mean they are perfect or do not have issues. They just have less overall issues then the other guys. These facts are not disputed by other manufacturers. Even Ford has commercials saying something like "our cars are now as reliable as Toyota"
 

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You forgot the word "rated" in that quote. And they've all got their fair share of screw-ups. Toyota's sludge lawsuit and garbage truck frames come to mind off the top of my head.
 
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I've got an '01 Civic. The SRS light has been on for awhile now. I wonder if the air bag is the reason for this. It says on the Honda website to wait for a recall notice in the mail, so I'll wait to see if it comes.
 
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acura -- these things turn into a ****ing match because the average consumer knows nothing about which he/she speaks, especially when it comes to cars. this is obvious on the bitog website. you state "... they're probably outsourced...". of course they're outsourced.yet, the automaker and assembly workers are always to blame, even though bad parts are the real issue. there are probably some people that think that the air bag parts are built in some corner of the assembly plant. many threads on bitog echo the ignorance of many posters, especially since the big 3 bashing started late last year.a few of my neighbors are good examples.one has a 2 yr. old honda that had a power window regulator die.of course, honda's are now [censored].another has a 2 yr. old hyundai that had a bad brake rotor. hyundai's are now [censored]. another has a 1 yr.old focus that had a bad battery. now, ford's are [censored]. of course, these issues have to be the fault of the automakers, and the assemblers.i ask them how these issues are the fault of the assemblers. i get no reply.as stated earlier, the average consumer knows nothing about which he/she speaks. of course, the automaker has to be held accountable, but the consumer should see the reality of the situation.but, all of these stories are entertaining. the fact is that ALL of the automakers get bad parts from vendors, from time to time. that's the way it is.the companies get parts from all over the world, and sometimes they're not all perfect.it boggles my mind why the average consumer cannot understand this.
 
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 Originally Posted By: element_42
 Originally Posted By: opus1
 Originally Posted By: benjamming
 Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Honda is supposed to be spotless, why not hold them to a higher standard?
If you hold someone to a higher standard b/c of their reputation, then it's not really a standard is it? A standard doesn't bend.
Tell that to my boss...me and a coworker are both the same grade-level, but I'm held to a higher standard because I get the job done! OK, back on-topic. I believe the higher standard is also referred to as "raising the bar".
When the reputation is there, the reality must also be there to back it up. That's fair. If it was strictly a consumer perception of Honda's trouble-free and reliability reputation it wouldnt be fair, but Honda spends billions each year TELLING people how much more reliable they are over the other guys, so it's totally fair to expect them to deliver. When they don't, and get progressvely worse as time passes, people will call it out.
That's called marketing & all mfg do that. You don't really expect truth in advertising do you? Again, set a standard & judge all mfg from there. Otherwise, you can't compare vehicles. Sure, there can be a separate category for the mfg claims vs reality but that gets pretty pointless real quick since they all say they are the best thing since sliced bread.
 
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 Originally Posted By: yeti
....a few of my neighbors are good examples.one has a 2 yr. old honda that had a power window regulator die.of course, honda's are now [censored].
Wow....one of the regulators in my Malibu bit the dust last week, so since it lasted 10 years, I guess I did do better by not buying a Honda! Not calling you out, yeti, but the timing of my event was just too good to pass up! The problem is that the average consumer appears to be below average in the independent-thought process. Back OT, do I believe Honda/Toyota are above mistakes? No. Do I believe that they walk on water? No. But since since so much of the populace does think so, I can't help but take a bit of scheudenfraude (however that's spelled) whenever a recall like this comes up. If this was GM, the typical response would be "here we go again/typical UAW screw-up/yadda-yadda-yadda". I won't waste any more bandwidth.
 
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opus -- dam* malibus -- must be jun*, as your regulator only lasted 10 years. darn uaw assembly workers, who make $150,000./ year ! remember that statement back at the height of the big 3 bashing ? several of us who follow the boards,from time to time, still laugh at that erroneous and absurd statement. you state "...the average consumer appears to be below average in the independent-thought process". you're being kind.a marketing friend, who has been in the business for many years, has a sign over his desk -- "never under-estimate the stupidity of the american consumer". it should include canadian consumers, but back then, he worked in the detroit vicinity. in your sentence, "if this was gm...", you are correct.as well, this thread would be 15 or 20 pages long by now.
 
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I don't think that most Americans (or Canadians) are stupid. They may not know, or care to know, the details on how a car works or is maintained. However, I do believe they try to make an educated purchase based on recomendations from friends/family/press/etc, styling, comfort, performance, resale value, perceived prestige and their personal experiences. What I think is really hurting GM/Ford is the fact they they did build really bad cars in the 70s & 80s and uncompetitive vehicles in the 90s & early 2000s Many people gave up on GM/Ford after being burned too many times and have switched to Toyota and Honda. GM/Ford may make better cars now but for many it is too late. They may have had multiple Toyotas/Hondas that ran for many years with zero issues. So, in their experience (right or wrong) Toyota/Honda does make trouble free, reliable cars where GM/Ford make unreliable cars. When Honda/Toyota have a recall they think "too bad, glad they caught it" when GM/Ford have a recall they think "another example of poor GM/Ford quality". I am not saying this is fair. Just trying to expalin how I see it.
 
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cardinal -- you make a couple of good points.as far as the intelligence of n. americans -- many in the marketing community would beg to differ.case in point-- my marketing friend's sign.
 
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