Honda Accord-drain and refill auto trans fluid?

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I am going to call the Honda dealer here in town and the one near my office tomorrow, and compare prices on the DW1. If it is crazy expensive I may try to find the Valvoline equivalent. I have my reasons but I will not buy or use any Castrol or BP product.

I am kind of confused here and now don't know which ATF might be best. After reading this thread

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2403116

And after reading this on the Valvoline web site

http://www.valvoline.com/products/brands/maxlife/automatic-transmission-fluid/37

It looks like the Valvoline Dex Merc is the same as Z1. However I still have no idea which would be better, the Dex Merc or the new Honda DW1. Probably will just use the Honda fluid as long as it's not $20.00 per quart..

Thanks again. If anyone has any more info on the Valvoline I am all ears.
 
Carquest carries the genuine Honda DW1 ATF, $7.99 per quart:

Carquest

If Honda's price is too high I will see if they will price-match CQ, otherwise CQ is not far from my office either....
 
Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190

Thanks again. If anyone has any more info on the Valvoline I am all ears.


Are you referring to the valvoline maxlife or import? I'm sure many members here know quite a bit about the maxlife, but I'm thinking the import might be a new(er) product and not many people are too familiar with it yet but looking at its PDF, under "Performance Level" heading, the Valvoline Import Multi-Vehicle meets Honda's Z1 applications except in CVTs. Here's the link and hope it helps. hmmm. link to pdf is not working.. here's the site.

www.valvoline.com/pdf/multi_vehicle_atf.pdf

There we go, that's better, it works now.
 
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Well the Honda Parts Guys are some nice folks...I picked up 3 quarts of DW-1 after work and it was only $8.23 per quart. Unfortunately I did not get home in time to do the drain and refill, will tackle that tomorrow evening.
 
Quote:
Well the Honda Parts Guys are some nice folks.I picked up 3 quarts of DW-1 after work and it was only $8.23 per quart.....

I guess the best that can be said about the price is they didn't try to matrix price DW-1 as some will. That price is MSRP which one is generally lucky to get from the Honda stealer.

I now have 27k mi. using MaxLife on 01 Civic, just finished second ML (single) d&f with it on that vehicle. Now has 194k mi. total and had previously seen only the poorly rated Z1. After Honda supeseded Z-1, so did I with MaxLife. Plan to to same with 3.0L Accord and not look back.

If my Honda had spec'd DW-1 I'd pay the stealer price, at least for awhile but not Z-1 spec. And afaik, none of the other non Honda ATF say suitable/recommended for DW-1 yet, at least on their respective sites.

Here's an excellent thread regarding using MaxLife in Hondas. Several satisfied Honda owners using it. Selected Wally stores price $17 a gallon, $23/gal at Advance.

Honda Z1 or Valvoline MaxLife ATF Dex/Merc
 
Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
Well the Honda Parts Guys are some nice folks...I picked up 3 quarts of DW-1 after work and it was only $8.23 per quart. Unfortunately I did not get home in time to do the drain and refill, will tackle that tomorrow evening.

Fyi - the drain plug will be on super-tight, you need a ratchet that is around 13" long to have enough leverage. Do not use a 3/8" ratchet alone (be sure to attach a short extension to it), as the 3/8" drive on most ratchets are too short to provide a secure fit on the plug...and you may end up destroying the plug.

Be sure to get a new drain plug washer and torque the plug to 36 ft-lbs. It's supposed to be a bit tighter than an oil drain plug.

Lastly, most of the Honda 5-spd autos that I've serviced take 3.3-3.4 qt. The manual says 3.0, but I always drain out more than that. To check the fluid level, the correct procedure is to allow the car to idle for about 20 min until the rad fans come on twice, then check the fluid within 60 sec of shutdown. However, I've found that if you start the car and allowed it to idle for 1-2 min, and check the level immediately upon shutdown - its pretty close to the official procedure.
 
Thanks for the tips. I am thinking the drain plug washer is the same as the M14 washers for the oil pan drain plug? If so, I just bought a new pack last week, and if not I can get one at the local Honda dealer or maybe AAP. I can pick up another quart of DW-1 if needed. The local Honda retail parts counter is open until 7pm. I will probably drain and fill the fluid again in 10K miles, maybe Valvoline will have Honda's blessing by then. Until they do I am using the Honda fluid, it is not much more expensive and when you get down to it, this is not my car. Mrs. Jimmy and I both would rather use the Honda fluid.
 
Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
Thanks for the tips. I am thinking the drain plug washer is the same as the M14 washers for the oil pan drain plug? If so, I just bought a new pack last week, and if not I can get one at the local Honda dealer or maybe AAP. I can pick up another quart of DW-1 if needed. The local Honda retail parts counter is open until 7pm. I will probably drain and fill the fluid again in 10K miles, maybe Valvoline will have Honda's blessing by then. Until they do I am using the Honda fluid, it is not much more expensive and when you get down to it, this is not my car. Mrs. Jimmy and I both would rather use the Honda fluid.


No, they are a different washer - they are M18. The dealer charges an outrageous amount for them, but I bought a 50-pack ebay...and I think it was from this guy:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Honda-18mm-D...b3a&vxp=mtr

I think I paid around $6/qt shipped for the DW-1 from curryacuraparts...they do not charge for shipping. They used to ship fluids as well, but they may have since changed their policy.
 
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Thanks again Critic. I will have to call the local dealer and pick up a washer tomorrow after work. I appreciate the tip, you saved me some aggravation.
 
Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
I will probably drain and fill the fluid again in 10K miles, maybe Valvoline will have Honda's blessing by then.

Unlikely. Honda won't certify/bless anyone else's ATF.
 
I suppose using a new crush washer is 'best practice', but I've never once replaced it on the 01 Civic and never had a leak or issue of any kind. I've done more than a half dozen d&f's on that vehicle, and one on the 3.0L Accord and never replaced it. I do however torque it to spec with a torque wrench, or at least have recently. I take a more pragmatic approach to that type of thing.

Also never needed to put an extention on standard 3/8" ratchet to remove the drain plug, and I'm still using the original drain plug with no damage. I guess some folks can have different experiences on how to do a procedure successfully.

The keys to me are getting the vehicle to operating temp and trying to keep it as level as possible when doing the drain. Also, leaving the atf dipstick in until some/much of fluid is out, then remove it to get the remainder out. That keeps the atf from going all over the place.

Originally Posted By: barlowc
Quote:
I will probably drain and fill the fluid again in 10K miles, maybe Valvoline will have Honda's blessing by then.

Unlikely. Honda won't certify/bless anyone else's ATF.

True that. Though, every replacement ATF mentioned in this thread has the suitable/recommended for Z-1 spec, which is the spec atf for said vehicle.

All that said, I understand the warm fuzzy that using a fluid with the Honda name on the bottle can give no matter the price.
 
I have used all three of the "major" aftermarket ATFs in both of our cars, and I've gone back to buying OEM. All three worked a little bit differently. Some felt better than others initially, and some seemed to last longer than others, but none seemed to work as well as the OEM fluid...especially in our Honda CR-V. In the Acura, the Castrol IMV and the Valvoline ML seemed to work about the same, though I have gone back to using OEM fluids. The aftermarket fluids changed the shift feel in both; I liked it initially, but I've gone back to preferring the shift feel on the DW-1 fluid.

I will say that I didn't like Valvoline's Import fluid at all, in either. I don't know why it shifted like it did, but it was very loosey-goosey. The Valvoline ML is on the other end of the spectrum; very notchy with firm shifts. The 1-2 shift on VML will sometimes "hang" due to the incorrect FM in the fluid. The Castrol IMV has provided the best balance among the three aftermarket fluids that I've tried, and it acts the most like the OEM fluid. But it's rarely available by the gallon (at least near me), and I save nothing over the OEM fluid by buying it by the quart. My local Honda dealer gives me a discount on the DW-1 ($6.17/qt), and that's enough to keep my business there.

Regarding compatibility, the Castrol IMV is indeed the only mainstream aftermarket fluid that says that it's compatible with both Z1 and DW-1 (on the bottle). I think there may be other "boutiques" that claim DW-1 compatibility (such as Redline and/or Amsoil), but I haven't tried them. Neither Valvoline product claims compatibility with DW-1.
 
Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
Mrs. Jimmy and I both would rather use the Honda fluid.


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The Honda dealer near my house has the drain plug washer, $2.27. I will pick one up on the way home. Cheap as it is and with this being my wife's car (not my own car) I would rather just replace the washer and not have either one of us worry about it. I guess I can pick up an extra qt of DW-1 while I am there just in case I need it and store it on the shelf in the garage if I don't need it...

Thanks again for the help and info here.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
The Valvoline ML is on the other end of the spectrum; very notchy with firm shifts.

This seems to be a common description of ML in the Honda ATs. It's how I would describe its performance in our VUE's Honda 5-speed AT. I like it and consider it an improvement of what I otherwise describe as sloppy (albeit smooth) shifts with Z-1.
 
Well I can say the DW-1 is a great ATF for Mrs. Jimmy's Accord...I did the drain and fill tonight and even though I had a bit of trouble with the level of fluid when I refilled it, the car shifts so much better now, smooth and firm and the transmission is quieter too. The car does not seem to work as hard going up hills now either. I have nothing to compare it to but I say DW-1 is fine.

I drained the old fluid out, it was dark red and needed changing. I added 3 quarts in and checked the level, it looked a tad low so I added a few ounces from a 4th quart of DW-1 and that was where my troubles started with the ATF level. I did have the car up on ramps in the front and jack stands in the rear and it was sitting level, but the fluid was slightly over the "full" hole on the dipstick. I posted in the ATF forum about that, it would have been OK to leave it alone but this is not my car so I wanted it to be done perfectly. I am too OCD so I cracked the drain plug loose and drained just a few ounces out. The level is perfect now, just below the "full" hole on the dipstick.

Thanks everybody for your help with this. I do not know a lot about automatics but I learned a lot with this project.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted By: sayjac
And afaik, none of the other non Honda ATF say suitable/recommended for DW-1 yet, at least on their respective sites.

.....Castrol Import Multi Vehicle ATF DOES state it MEETS the DW-1 spec.

Castrol Import Multi Vehicle ATF (Transmax)


Note I said "afaik" and "on their on their respective sites." Link below is to the very first Castrol link that shows with a google search of CIMV and the associated PDS pdf file. Note there's no mention of DW-1 spec on either.

Also obviously the other link now posted is updated from somewhere, but even at that nowhere does it specifically say "meets DW-1 spec" as you so loudly and boldly claim. DW-1 simply now has made the "recommended for use in" list. I suspect other multivehicle ATF's will be doing the same soon. In any case, yelling that it meets DW-1 specs apparently doesn't make it so. Perhaps some anger management is in order here, but congratulations on finding a newer CIMV pds/pdf 'recommended for use in' listing.

Bottom line though, it's really immaterial now though as the OP made his decision awhile ago.

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9012226&contentId=7028224

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_int...ds_ImportMV.pdf
 
I do a drain and fill of the automatic transmission on an "05 Accord 4cyl. every couple of years. I have only used DW-1 fluid and it seems to work great.

There is also an external transmission filter located on top of the transmission on one of the lines that goes to the radiator, beneath the airbox. The part number should be #25430-PLR-003 and its like $15. I'd suggest changing that now and then just do regular drain and fills for the next decade.
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Also obviously the other link now posted is updated from somewhere, but even at that nowhere does it specifically say "meets DW-1 spec" as you so loudly and boldly claim. DW-1 simply now has made the "recommended for use in" list.


Personally, I don't think we can assume that any aftermarket fluid "meets the specs" of the Honda fluid. In fact, we pretty much know that none of them do. The Honda fluid has a specific starting viscosity. This isn't just a random number; Honda prescribes a certain starting viscosity, and this is in no doubt on the "specifications" page defining DW-1. None of the aftermarket fluids, to my knowledge, share the same starting viscosity. Ironically, the only mainstream fluid that does recommend its use in DW-1 applications (the Castrol product) has the highest starting viscosity of them all (8.0 cSt). DW-1 is near 6.8 cSt if I recall correctly.

There's also the issue of the additive package. Castrol Transmax IMV certainly does not share the same additive package as DW-1 (no other fluid does). DW-1 has a specific amount of zinc (higher than most any ATF), a specific amount of boron, etc. Because DW-1 is a sole-source fluid contracted by an OEM, I have little doubt that the additive package is specified by Honda. If this is indeed the case, then no other fluid would "meet the specs".

The best we can say about the Castrol product is that Castrol recommends its use in Z1 and in DW-1 applications. How well that fluid is matched to those applications is anyone's guess. Castrol is a reputable company, and I'm sure they've done an impressive amount of testing, but the fact remains, at least in my humble opinion, that the fluid doesn't "meet the specs" of DW-1. It's simply recommended for use where DW-1 is specified.

In other words, and in case it's not clear, I agree with you.
 
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