Get an associate in anything medical, moa,lpn,etc. you will have a job right away here. there is a long waiting list for nursing school here(teacher shortage) and people are going out of state for there degrees. Tech and medical are the hot fields
High School Diploma=Associate's Degree
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I've said this countless times. An associates and bachelor's degree are pretty much worthless now a days. The reason being is that so many people go for them in most of the big sectors(nursing, business admin etc) that you need to do more to differentiate yourself from the others. Master's are more common place now with more and more people going for it, [censored] even phd's.
I find that with enough hard-work and experience you can make just as much if not more than people with degree's pending your choice of profession. The IT sector will pay more for experience than a degree as most people with degree's didn't put time in for gathering experience. I've seen it many times where they freeze up under pressure and don't know how to do things.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying a degree is worthless but the days of a degree being the only necessity to land a good paying job are long gone.
I find that with enough hard-work and experience you can make just as much if not more than people with degree's pending your choice of profession. The IT sector will pay more for experience than a degree as most people with degree's didn't put time in for gathering experience. I've seen it many times where they freeze up under pressure and don't know how to do things.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying a degree is worthless but the days of a degree being the only necessity to land a good paying job are long gone.
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Jobs and degrees should be acquired strategically. First, figure out what you want to be in 5 to 10 years and then gain the education necessary for your goal and move around to jobs that will help you reach your goal.
For a lot of people, that means going to college right after high school and getting a degree that interests them, working for a few years, and going back for a graduate degree in the field they wind up in.
That's essentially what I did. A lot of people like to bash undergraduate degrees in the liberal arts but it worked out for me. I got a [censored] in Geography but also took many writing classes, biology, chemistry, physics, history, etc. along the way. I also learned a lot of intangible things in the process too; how to deal with department politics, apply for grants, conduct research, and made many contacts that helped me get a job and into graduate school.
It just seems like today, to have any kind of analytical job, you need to have at least a Master's degree. The only way to open the door for that is with a Bachelors.
Jobs and degrees should be acquired strategically. First, figure out what you want to be in 5 to 10 years and then gain the education necessary for your goal and move around to jobs that will help you reach your goal.
For a lot of people, that means going to college right after high school and getting a degree that interests them, working for a few years, and going back for a graduate degree in the field they wind up in.
That's essentially what I did. A lot of people like to bash undergraduate degrees in the liberal arts but it worked out for me. I got a [censored] in Geography but also took many writing classes, biology, chemistry, physics, history, etc. along the way. I also learned a lot of intangible things in the process too; how to deal with department politics, apply for grants, conduct research, and made many contacts that helped me get a job and into graduate school.
It just seems like today, to have any kind of analytical job, you need to have at least a Master's degree. The only way to open the door for that is with a Bachelors.
Originally Posted By: John_K
My wife helps people find work for a living, and she says even a BACHELOR'S doesn't mean much, everybody wants a MASTER'S. When will it ever end?
John
This is true, adding to my original post I'll give an example.
IT certifications were and still are very big, but the certs are no longer worth it in most companies due to the late 90's/early 2000's.
Back then you had a regular guy who didn't need to be good with computers pass an exam and grabbed a cert. These people then went to try and get jobs in the IT field and failed. A+, MCSE are way over played and mean nothing to most IT companies. Yes it looks good to have it but to this day on every interview they will give you the "test". I do not have an A+ or MCSE degree, I have life experience and it has given me more than I could have asked for.
On several interviews where I landed the job they were surprised I could solve problems quicker and offer more input on the issue than other applicants. I was hired on the spot, my nickname at the old job was McGyver. My boss who became one of my very good friends commented on how many applicants they had and their resume's looked supurb, but they couldn't handle the exam. Mine actually backed up what I said and he liked that.
My wife helps people find work for a living, and she says even a BACHELOR'S doesn't mean much, everybody wants a MASTER'S. When will it ever end?
John
This is true, adding to my original post I'll give an example.
IT certifications were and still are very big, but the certs are no longer worth it in most companies due to the late 90's/early 2000's.
Back then you had a regular guy who didn't need to be good with computers pass an exam and grabbed a cert. These people then went to try and get jobs in the IT field and failed. A+, MCSE are way over played and mean nothing to most IT companies. Yes it looks good to have it but to this day on every interview they will give you the "test". I do not have an A+ or MCSE degree, I have life experience and it has given me more than I could have asked for.
On several interviews where I landed the job they were surprised I could solve problems quicker and offer more input on the issue than other applicants. I was hired on the spot, my nickname at the old job was McGyver. My boss who became one of my very good friends commented on how many applicants they had and their resume's looked supurb, but they couldn't handle the exam. Mine actually backed up what I said and he liked that.
Originally Posted By: kb01
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Jobs and degrees should be acquired strategically. First, figure out what you want to be in 5 to 10 years and then gain the education necessary for your goal and move around to jobs that will help you reach your goal.
For a lot of people, that means going to college right after high school and getting a degree that interests them, working for a few years, and going back for a graduate degree in the field they wind up in.
That's essentially what I did. A lot of people like to bash undergraduate degrees in the liberal arts but it worked out for me. I got a [censored] in Geography but also took many writing classes, biology, chemistry, physics, history, etc. along the way. I also learned a lot of intangible things in the process too; how to deal with department politics, apply for grants, conduct research, and made many contacts that helped me get a job and into graduate school.
It just seems like today, to have any kind of analytical job, you need to have at least a Master's degree. The only way to open the door for that is with a Bachelors.
The thing is, many places won't even consider you if you do not already have a Master's. It's a way of thinning out the population and trying to get the best of the best. But I can't see this as correct because anyone can sit there and put in the time to get a Master's if they can financially afford it or have the ability to muster up enough grants and scholarships etc. You can be very book smart, but fail under pressure. It works both ways but in the past few years your seeing a lot of this raising the bar. I'd say a good part of the populace is trying to pay their way through with loans to get a job.
They are placing themselves under heavy burden and stress to get something that may not help them. The school system is a business first and foremost. They only care that you pay into it and meet the general criteria. If you meet or exceed the criteria great, here is a piece of paper you just blew 50k+ for. You want a better shot out there? Blow another 50k and get a Master's.
Then when your 65 and still haven't paid off your loan you will find life to be very difficult. I have friends and acquaintances who had partial scholarships and went to places like NJIT and Stevens and they are still floating around 100k in loans.
My one friend has a Masters from MIT and 10 years into repayment and he still has over 120k to pay back. Thats with a Master's!.
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Jobs and degrees should be acquired strategically. First, figure out what you want to be in 5 to 10 years and then gain the education necessary for your goal and move around to jobs that will help you reach your goal.
For a lot of people, that means going to college right after high school and getting a degree that interests them, working for a few years, and going back for a graduate degree in the field they wind up in.
That's essentially what I did. A lot of people like to bash undergraduate degrees in the liberal arts but it worked out for me. I got a [censored] in Geography but also took many writing classes, biology, chemistry, physics, history, etc. along the way. I also learned a lot of intangible things in the process too; how to deal with department politics, apply for grants, conduct research, and made many contacts that helped me get a job and into graduate school.
It just seems like today, to have any kind of analytical job, you need to have at least a Master's degree. The only way to open the door for that is with a Bachelors.
The thing is, many places won't even consider you if you do not already have a Master's. It's a way of thinning out the population and trying to get the best of the best. But I can't see this as correct because anyone can sit there and put in the time to get a Master's if they can financially afford it or have the ability to muster up enough grants and scholarships etc. You can be very book smart, but fail under pressure. It works both ways but in the past few years your seeing a lot of this raising the bar. I'd say a good part of the populace is trying to pay their way through with loans to get a job.
They are placing themselves under heavy burden and stress to get something that may not help them. The school system is a business first and foremost. They only care that you pay into it and meet the general criteria. If you meet or exceed the criteria great, here is a piece of paper you just blew 50k+ for. You want a better shot out there? Blow another 50k and get a Master's.
Then when your 65 and still haven't paid off your loan you will find life to be very difficult. I have friends and acquaintances who had partial scholarships and went to places like NJIT and Stevens and they are still floating around 100k in loans.
My one friend has a Masters from MIT and 10 years into repayment and he still has over 120k to pay back. Thats with a Master's!.
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bradepb said:
There are many people with 4 year degrees in the same boat.
For many years, I labored under the misconception that Hospitals and Schools were more benevolent than mercenary.
It's all about the money!
For many years, I labored under the misconception that Hospitals and Schools were more benevolent than mercenary.
It's all about the money!
This almost falls into line with the recent proceedings in the senate.
If you graduate and work for the government(any job) for at least 8 years, any amount of loan you still owe for education is erased/paid off. I find that this is a way to force people into a field they probably won't care for, and a way to burden the financial institutions and taxpayers. They are asking more from us, yet we get nothing in return to help better ourselves.
If you graduate and work for the government(any job) for at least 8 years, any amount of loan you still owe for education is erased/paid off. I find that this is a way to force people into a field they probably won't care for, and a way to burden the financial institutions and taxpayers. They are asking more from us, yet we get nothing in return to help better ourselves.
Kestas
Staff member
I believe schools are a business unto themselves. They'll accept anyone who has the brains and money to go through their programs. It pains me to see people preparing themselves for jobs that don't exist anymore (the competition is fierce), yet I don't know what the answer is, short of trades.
Originally Posted By: Anies
The thing is, many places won't even consider you if you do not already have a Master's. It's a way of thinning out the population and trying to get the best of the best. But I can't see this as correct because anyone can sit there and put in the time to get a Master's if they can financially afford it or have the ability to muster up enough grants and scholarships etc.
I think a lot of this depends on the field. In many science fields, you have an opportunity to work as a technician with a bachelors but really can't go any further without at least a masters. The technician jobs are viewed as a right of passage, and are essentially grueling, labor intensive jobs, where you get paid peanuts.
I also think graduate school also widely varies. For me, it was really the hardest thing I've ever accomplished. It was more sleep depriving than my basic training and airborne school and significantly more academically challenging than my undergrad. It was a cut throat fight for funding and next to no pay as an instructor.
I really can't imagine going through it all again as an adult, with the responsibilities of children and a mortgage. I have no idea what I'll do if/when my job is sent to India.
The thing is, many places won't even consider you if you do not already have a Master's. It's a way of thinning out the population and trying to get the best of the best. But I can't see this as correct because anyone can sit there and put in the time to get a Master's if they can financially afford it or have the ability to muster up enough grants and scholarships etc.
I think a lot of this depends on the field. In many science fields, you have an opportunity to work as a technician with a bachelors but really can't go any further without at least a masters. The technician jobs are viewed as a right of passage, and are essentially grueling, labor intensive jobs, where you get paid peanuts.
I also think graduate school also widely varies. For me, it was really the hardest thing I've ever accomplished. It was more sleep depriving than my basic training and airborne school and significantly more academically challenging than my undergrad. It was a cut throat fight for funding and next to no pay as an instructor.
I really can't imagine going through it all again as an adult, with the responsibilities of children and a mortgage. I have no idea what I'll do if/when my job is sent to India.
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Imo,college is a complete waste of time and money unless you learn a trade. Getting a generic liberal arts degree will land you a good job as a cashier at a retail store.
Something that I've observed down here is people taking degrees that they are unsuited for to get the highest earning potential from their high school results.
When I went through, the Tertiary Entrance Ranking (percentile mark for High School) was only in existence for 3 years. University subjects were ranked so that you needed a TER of whatever, to reasonably successfully complete the degree.
Could personally have done Law, or Medicine, but those professions were abhorent to me, so I settled for engineering (wanted to be a gunsmith growing up but didn't see that as viable in Oz).
After a few years, they started to raise the bar for medicine and Law, not because the bar needed to become higher, but to cull applicants.
Then started taking full fee paying students from oversees, who expect a degree at the end of their cheque book, and are getting them.
Now kids get a TER at the end of high school, and apply for the degree with the highest paying job at the end of it...
And wander through their degree saying stuff like "P's make degrees", and "51% is wasted effort, 49% is a wasted year".
When I went through, the Tertiary Entrance Ranking (percentile mark for High School) was only in existence for 3 years. University subjects were ranked so that you needed a TER of whatever, to reasonably successfully complete the degree.
Could personally have done Law, or Medicine, but those professions were abhorent to me, so I settled for engineering (wanted to be a gunsmith growing up but didn't see that as viable in Oz).
After a few years, they started to raise the bar for medicine and Law, not because the bar needed to become higher, but to cull applicants.
Then started taking full fee paying students from oversees, who expect a degree at the end of their cheque book, and are getting them.
Now kids get a TER at the end of high school, and apply for the degree with the highest paying job at the end of it...
And wander through their degree saying stuff like "P's make degrees", and "51% is wasted effort, 49% is a wasted year".
If you want a solid shot at a job with a 4 year degree, make it an engineering degree. There is still serious demand.
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Many of the "factory" jobs now a days require an AA to even apply for the job.
The Chrysler engine plant in Dundee MI is one that come to mind. Every employee in that building has at least an Associates degree or a Technical 2 year degree.
The Chrysler engine plant in Dundee MI is one that come to mind. Every employee in that building has at least an Associates degree or a Technical 2 year degree.
It really depends on the degree, the field, and the employers.
In Biotech, you have to have a PhD to ever reach the scientist level in a reputable company, or you can be a technician all your life in a stable company, or a "scientist" in a 20 men operation with not much pay.
In Engineering, a degree from a good school get you jump started a few years in a good company, after that it is all about how well you do in the last few years.
In Liberal Art and other non technical field, it is more of a way to put your resume on top of other people, so it is up to you depends on whether you want to be filtered out first or not by spending 4 years.
No degree will ever guarantee you a comfortable living forever, even a PhD or MD, because the world is changing and it is up to you to work as hard or as smart as you can.
In Biotech, you have to have a PhD to ever reach the scientist level in a reputable company, or you can be a technician all your life in a stable company, or a "scientist" in a 20 men operation with not much pay.
In Engineering, a degree from a good school get you jump started a few years in a good company, after that it is all about how well you do in the last few years.
In Liberal Art and other non technical field, it is more of a way to put your resume on top of other people, so it is up to you depends on whether you want to be filtered out first or not by spending 4 years.
No degree will ever guarantee you a comfortable living forever, even a PhD or MD, because the world is changing and it is up to you to work as hard or as smart as you can.
Statistically, the higher the level of education, the less the unemployment level and the higher the lifetime earnings Net present value. People with high school degree have lower unemployment rates and earn more during their lifetimes than people who did not finish high school, and so on.
Obviously, this is statistics and individual results may vary.
Obviously, this is statistics and individual results may vary.
I have an Associate's of the Arts (AA).
Thanks to some of you who think I have hope. Just a couple minutes ago, there's a management position only available to those with any Associates degree. I am going to apply online.
I thought the Bachelor's degree was something good; my brother has a bachelor's and he has a great job. He is a science genius.
I'm a blue-collar worker in a White-collar town so it's a bit of a motivation to me.
Thanks to some of you who think I have hope. Just a couple minutes ago, there's a management position only available to those with any Associates degree. I am going to apply online.
I thought the Bachelor's degree was something good; my brother has a bachelor's and he has a great job. He is a science genius.
I'm a blue-collar worker in a White-collar town so it's a bit of a motivation to me.
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At my old job (GE Healthcare) they hired people with Associates Degree for $20 an hour plus 10 paid hoildays during your 1 year internship. After you learn the ropes you can easily make $35 to $40+ an hour in this field working with medical equipment with just a 2 year degree. Sure more $$$ = more responsibility. An old friend that I worked with at GE is now a Director of Service (DOS) basically a regional manager for approx 18 hospitals and she makes over $100,000 a year with just an associates and industry experience.
GE trains people with associates degree in Electronics for various modalities (CT, MRI, Cath Lab, X-ray / C-arms, Monitoring, Ultrasound, Life Support, etc, etc....). When they send you to manufacturer's training there is a one year commitment you are required to sign so that they don't waste their time and money. There are always openings in this field, I spent 11 years doing field service for GE (Datex Ohmeda).
Another good thing is that you can go from one GE business to another such as: Oil & Gas, Energy, Power & Water, Aviation...etc.
GE trains people with associates degree in Electronics for various modalities (CT, MRI, Cath Lab, X-ray / C-arms, Monitoring, Ultrasound, Life Support, etc, etc....). When they send you to manufacturer's training there is a one year commitment you are required to sign so that they don't waste their time and money. There are always openings in this field, I spent 11 years doing field service for GE (Datex Ohmeda).
Another good thing is that you can go from one GE business to another such as: Oil & Gas, Energy, Power & Water, Aviation...etc.
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I have an associates degree in computer science from one of those scammy technical schools.
I was 18 and stupid, and I'm still paying for it ($25k)..
The degree has done nothing for me, I think that some of the computer certifications are worth pursuing, but I still see a limit of about 18-20 dollars per hour with an associates.
4 years out of school, I'm still not in the field, I'm working mind numbing work for a financial company.
My girlfriend has a 4 year criminal justice degree and a $45k price tag, and she is working the same job as me.
I suppose the only way is up.
I was 18 and stupid, and I'm still paying for it ($25k)..
The degree has done nothing for me, I think that some of the computer certifications are worth pursuing, but I still see a limit of about 18-20 dollars per hour with an associates.
4 years out of school, I'm still not in the field, I'm working mind numbing work for a financial company.
My girlfriend has a 4 year criminal justice degree and a $45k price tag, and she is working the same job as me.
I suppose the only way is up.
Originally Posted By: JustinH
I have an associates degree in computer science from one of those scammy technical schools.
I was 18 and stupid, and I'm still paying for it ($25k)..
The degree has done nothing for me, I think that some of the computer certifications are worth pursuing, but I still see a limit of about 18-20 dollars per hour with an associates.
4 years out of school, I'm still not in the field, I'm working mind numbing work for a financial company.
My girlfriend has a 4 year criminal justice degree and a $45k price tag, and she is working the same job as me.
I suppose the only way is up.
I didn't go to a "Scammy college". I went to a legit and popular community college and I worked very hard to get my Associate's...
I have an associates degree in computer science from one of those scammy technical schools.
I was 18 and stupid, and I'm still paying for it ($25k)..
The degree has done nothing for me, I think that some of the computer certifications are worth pursuing, but I still see a limit of about 18-20 dollars per hour with an associates.
4 years out of school, I'm still not in the field, I'm working mind numbing work for a financial company.
My girlfriend has a 4 year criminal justice degree and a $45k price tag, and she is working the same job as me.
I suppose the only way is up.
I didn't go to a "Scammy college". I went to a legit and popular community college and I worked very hard to get my Associate's...
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