My 84 Civic wagon has just passed 421k miles and I've switched from my previous synthetic oil to Mobil 1 High Mileage 10-40w rather than add some kind of add-on product to stop oil burning. It was parked much of the time in the past 4 years but has been well maintained since purchased new 29 years ago but has now been put back into service as a regular driver. It appears that 5k oil changes using synthetic oil has been worth the expense especially since I do my own maintenance. The head has never been off this engine and there have never been any failures that have stranded me in all this time. Right now the major problem is the oil control rings because it now burns oil at the rate of 1 quart every 300-500 miles with occasional increases to 1 quart every 200-300 miles, but still has factory new compression. I'm really curious to see if Mobil 1 High Mileage is worth the purchase or just marketing hype.
High Mileage
- Thread starter OneEyeJack
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in 1984 those honda engines had a big problem! They ran forever and the engine rebuilding shops got no business from them (I remember the days when toyota and Honda built the greatest engines) these days we see a lot of them but back in the eighties we never saw them!
You could try Auto-RX or Kreen.
One assumes that the oil rings are gummed up and not properly scrapping oil off the cylinder walls. Probably the case.
But I believe its also possible the bearings are loose and are shooting too much oil onto the cylinder walls.
One assumes that the oil rings are gummed up and not properly scrapping oil off the cylinder walls. Probably the case.
But I believe its also possible the bearings are loose and are shooting too much oil onto the cylinder walls.
instead of trying autorx or kreen (or whatever magic elixir that some bitogers want you to buy into), consider getting all the valve stem seals replaced and if you are mechanically-capable, check valve guide clearances and wear. That should reduce the oil burning typically associated with hardened valve stem seals.
As for piston-ring/cylinder wall/oil control ring related oil burning issue...you can perform a wet/dry compression test to determine the status of your ring-to-wall sealing capability before you do anything to it.
Q.
**as much as I would like to see your Honda engine getting into the Guiness book of records, based on your description: I believe your engine is getting tired and in-need of a rebuild.
As for piston-ring/cylinder wall/oil control ring related oil burning issue...you can perform a wet/dry compression test to determine the status of your ring-to-wall sealing capability before you do anything to it.
Q.
**as much as I would like to see your Honda engine getting into the Guiness book of records, based on your description: I believe your engine is getting tired and in-need of a rebuild.
When I got married in 1986 we bought an 81 Honda Accord with 110K miles on it. That engine was bullet proof! We kept it until 1995 and sold it with 209K miles and it still ran very good.
BTW, I used 10W40 oil.
BTW, I used 10W40 oil.
Originally Posted By: davglt
since it sat for 4 years and then is using oil when it didn't before the valve stem seals seem to be the most logical place to look, any telltale smoke on start up?
IMHO it's not gonna matter: afterall: it's a 30 yr old engine with over 420k on the odo...all the seals, etc. already hardened no matter what magic elixir owner(s) been running on.
HM oil will not help in this case. A partial rebuild (including all the seal replacements, etc.) is in order.
Q.
since it sat for 4 years and then is using oil when it didn't before the valve stem seals seem to be the most logical place to look, any telltale smoke on start up?
IMHO it's not gonna matter: afterall: it's a 30 yr old engine with over 420k on the odo...all the seals, etc. already hardened no matter what magic elixir owner(s) been running on.
HM oil will not help in this case. A partial rebuild (including all the seal replacements, etc.) is in order.
Q.
Long time M1 HM user on multiple engines. Don't expect overnight miracles, be patient. May get worse before it gets better. Takes a while for the additives to do anything beneficial. Around 5k something should be happening.
Originally Posted By: bigt61
I agree with LeakySeals, keep driving it - I'll bet those seals come back to life. I had a 100k mile Mitsu Galant that smoked so much there wasn't a mosquito in a 2 block radius. 500 miles later, all smoke gone on M1 5w30.
Maybe your situation wasnt the valve seals. Might have been something else?
I agree with LeakySeals, keep driving it - I'll bet those seals come back to life. I had a 100k mile Mitsu Galant that smoked so much there wasn't a mosquito in a 2 block radius. 500 miles later, all smoke gone on M1 5w30.
Maybe your situation wasnt the valve seals. Might have been something else?
wow thats is some serious dedication. since you are married to it, i would definitely consider investing about 2000 getting the head and engine block rebuilt and keep trucking along. if anything you have gotten 20x that much in use and value over time from that car.
After only 421K, this engine might be worn out.
It isn't really rebuildable either.
This car is suffering from what my very experienced indie Honda tech calls "old Civic syndrome".
The pistons would likely fall right our of the bores if you removed the pan and the crank.
A re-ring would probably add many miles of life to this engine, if you can find someone to do it.
Incidentally, we had two Civic Wagons of this generation, both '86 MY cars, both sticks.
These were great cars in every way, with plenty of room, decent acceleration, good handling with minimal understeer, outstanding fuel economy, as well as a much better manual shifter than anything Honda has offered for the past twenty years.
The engines lasted really well.
Both of ours reached 200K+ and neither ever used enough oil to require any adds, although I did do 3K OCIs back in the day.
Even the dreaded timing belt change was pretty easy on these cars, and I liked the simplicity of a mechanical fuel pump feeding a carb.
If I could find one of these cars in decent condition, I'd buy it before I'd buy a similar W123 diesel, another car we had a couple of back in the day that I really liked.
It isn't really rebuildable either.
This car is suffering from what my very experienced indie Honda tech calls "old Civic syndrome".
The pistons would likely fall right our of the bores if you removed the pan and the crank.
A re-ring would probably add many miles of life to this engine, if you can find someone to do it.
Incidentally, we had two Civic Wagons of this generation, both '86 MY cars, both sticks.
These were great cars in every way, with plenty of room, decent acceleration, good handling with minimal understeer, outstanding fuel economy, as well as a much better manual shifter than anything Honda has offered for the past twenty years.
The engines lasted really well.
Both of ours reached 200K+ and neither ever used enough oil to require any adds, although I did do 3K OCIs back in the day.
Even the dreaded timing belt change was pretty easy on these cars, and I liked the simplicity of a mechanical fuel pump feeding a carb.
If I could find one of these cars in decent condition, I'd buy it before I'd buy a similar W123 diesel, another car we had a couple of back in the day that I really liked.
When I first brought it out of storage is smoked so bad there was a big cloud behind the car and it got worse on slow down like entering an off ramp on the freeway. I replaced the valve seals and ran it on a double dose of Auto-Rx and Delo 15w40 and after 2k miles the smoking was gone except for an occasional puff. I changed the Delo and gave it a second dose of Delo and ran it for a second 2k miles and no puffs, nothing and during the 4k interval it burned about 4 quarts in the first 2k and 2 and a half quarts during the second 2k. Dry compression is factory spec. Wet compression about the same. I think the engine is not ready for a rebuild and that the diet of synthetic oil for 29 years and spending its life in Southern California has done its job. I'm just hoping that the High Mileage oil is a real product and not just a marketing gimmick. I'm hoping this because this little wagon is a very good car and everything works. It drives well and gets great gas mileage. The 5-speed is a close ratio gearbox with perfect gear spacing and 5th is an over drive gear. This car has always been kept in a garage, never seen snow and never driven in weather below freezing and seldom does it see rain. It starts at the slightest touch of the key and idles very smooth, hot or cold. The fancy carb works so well that when you turn on the air the idle speed changes a tiny bit and immediately returns to is original speed. I have hopes of being able to drive it to my funeral.
One side note. For the first 200k miles the level on the dipstick just barley moved between 5k oil changes, not enough to bother topping up. The amount of the drop was about 1/16" or so. Somewhere just past 200k it would drop about 1/8" or so. The drop would have to be just under 1/2" to equal a quart.
One side note. For the first 200k miles the level on the dipstick just barley moved between 5k oil changes, not enough to bother topping up. The amount of the drop was about 1/16" or so. Somewhere just past 200k it would drop about 1/8" or so. The drop would have to be just under 1/2" to equal a quart.
Give Maxlife a try and continue driving this fine, now vintage, machine.
See what happens.
It may free up over time and it may then revert to normal levels of oil consumption.
If I had a nice old Civic Wagon, I'd try to save it too.
You even have working AC?
A type of car that Honda no longer offers in this country, nor does anyone else.
Light, roomy, fun to drive and very economical.
See what happens.
It may free up over time and it may then revert to normal levels of oil consumption.
If I had a nice old Civic Wagon, I'd try to save it too.
You even have working AC?
A type of car that Honda no longer offers in this country, nor does anyone else.
Light, roomy, fun to drive and very economical.
M1 HM is no gimmick, its for real. I bought the Camry in my sig for $2500 with 137k on it. Cheap because it would not stay running and supposedly needed a new engine due to neglect. Blew plumes of smoke at startup. Leaking oil from everywhere. Ticking/borderline knocking from being so clogged with sludge. After 2X M1 HM OCI's things were much better, to the point I started driving it daily. That was 130k ago. Its never been opened for anything. No more leaks, no more startup plumes, perfectly quiet. No ticks or noises. The engine didn't escape the neglect entirely though. It burns 1qt every 3k-3500 from the valve seals under load. But for what I paid I really dont care. Change my oil between 7-10k. But of course thats no guarantee you will have the same results. Each engine and its problems are different. No oil can flip back the odometer
The A/C has been charged up a couple of times but nothing else. The rear wiper works and the button that releases the tailgate works, too along with the rear window defogger. I think that where you life has a lot to do with how long a car might last, along with good driving habits and routine maintenance. The care is developing a dozen or so tiny rust spots that are being treated with a special primer and some touch up paint. Adding up all the spots would equal about a quarter inch diameter circle in total. I'm hoping that they have been contained. Otherwise the care appears to be well made and drives great. I do understand that at just over two thousand pounds and no air bags that if I get hit at freeway speeds I'm spam in a can.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I do understand that at just over two thousand pounds and no air bags that if I get hit at freeway speeds I'm spam in a can.
WOW, what an analogy!
I do understand that at just over two thousand pounds and no air bags that if I get hit at freeway speeds I'm spam in a can.
WOW, what an analogy!
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