High Mileage oil for a Saab

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Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by Toros
Saab states the use of Mobil 1 5W-30. It's a sticker right on the fan cowling. Why are you experimenting with thicker oils with a turbocharged engine? Granted, 0W-30 had yet to be formulated when Saab made the car and is quite acceptable . Using thicker oil to reduce consumption is at the expense of blowing the turbo. Good luck with that plan.

Umm, I used M1 0w-30 in my V-6 Camry in the winter of 2003-04. . .

Umm.. That's not to say it was in production when Saab engineers specified M 1 5W-30 for the OPs 9-5.
 
People who do not have a clue about something should not be posting as if they do. It only needlessly confuses those who are reading the responses.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
People who do not have a clue about something should not be posting as if they do. It only needlessly confuses those who are reading the responses.

You mean people like you. Clearly you know more than the engineers that developed the 2.3T engine and specified the engine oil requirements.
 
Originally Posted by Toros
Saab states the use of Mobil 1 5W-30. It's a sticker right on the fan cowling. Why are you experimenting with thicker oils with a turbocharged engine? Granted, 0W-30 had yet to be formulated when Saab made the car and is quite acceptable . Using thicker oil to reduce consumption is at the expense of blowing the turbo. Good luck with that plan.


Here's a snippet from a 2001 Saab 9-5 manual:

Quote
Engine oil
Oil specification:
We recommend the use of oils that are available from your Saab
dealer, for the regular oil changes.
These oils fulfill the most stringent requirements set by API and
ACEA classifications.
Oil for gasoline engines is classified by the API standards
(American Petroleum Institute) into the grade classes SH (since
1993) and SJ (since 1996). The SJ class fulfils more stringent
requirements and has a lower phosphorous level.

These grade classes are most often combined with the corre-
sponding classes for diesel engines. The class designations for

diesel engines begin with the letter "C" (Commercial). For exam-
ple a grade combination suitable for both types of engine could

be API SH/CD or SJ/CF.

Under ACEA nomenclature, oils are divided into Class A for gas-
oline engines and Class B for diesel-engined passenger cars.

There is a further class for heavy diesel engines. Each class is

divided into three grades: 1, 2 and 3, where grades 2 and 3 nor-
mally encompass semi and fully-synthetic oils. The diesel class

B also has a fourth grade, B4, which encompasses tests and

regulations aimed at improving the performance of direct injec-
tion engines.

In the same way as in the API system, gasoline and diesel
engine specifications are combined for products that can be
used in both types of engine. For example, a grade designation
could be ACEA A2/B2 or ACEA A3/B3/B4.

To afford Saab engines the best protection, with regard to lubri-
cation, the ability to dissolve residues and the neutralization of

combustion products, we recommend the following oil grades:
• API SH/CD/CF or SJ/CD/CF.
• ACEA A3/B3/B4.
These oils contain the additives required for the engine to

function well. We advise against the use of further addi-
tives.

Viscosity:
The viscosity of oil is classified according to the SAE standard.

Nowadays, multigrade oils are always used in cars. The proper-
ties of these oils facilitate starting the car in cold weather but

mean that the oil is also viscous enough to coat all moving parts
under high pressures and with high outside air temperatures.
Multigrade oils are graded with two viscosities, e.g. 10W-30,
where the 10W meets certain viscosity requirements at -4°F
(-20°C), while the 30 fulfills requirements at a temperature of
212°F (100°C).
Basic recommendations for Saab engines:
• SAE 5W-30 or 5W-40.
The oil should be semi or fully synthetic and fulfil the grade
requirements for ACEA A3/B3 or API SJ.
Oils which are less viscous, such as 0W/-40/50 are becoming
more common and may be used. However, the oil must be
fully-synthetic, of a well known brand, and fulfil ACEA grade
requirements A3/B3.

This viscosity makes starting in cold weather easier.
Oil capacity incl. filter (on changing):
4-cylinder ________________________ 4.1 qts (4.0 litres)
3.0t V6 __________________________ 4.6 qts (4.5 litres)


Hope those thick oils didn't blow up turbos...
smile.gif
 
Here's the 2008 9-5 manual:

Quote
Approved engine oils:
For all gasoline engines - synthetic engine oil - approved against

the GM-LL-A-025 specification. To benefit from Saab Ìs speci-
fied service intervals, pleasure ensure to select a synthetic

engine oil approved against GM-LL-A-025.
For optimum performance Saab recommends the use of Saab
Long Life Turbo Oil SAE 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 or 5W-40.


The 2009, the final production year, didn't list specific weights...
 
Originally Posted by Toros
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by Toros
Saab states the use of Mobil 1 5W-30. It's a sticker right on the fan cowling. Why are you experimenting with thicker oils with a turbocharged engine? Granted, 0W-30 had yet to be formulated when Saab made the car and is quite acceptable . Using thicker oil to reduce consumption is at the expense of blowing the turbo. Good luck with that plan.

Umm, I used M1 0w-30 in my V-6 Camry in the winter of 2003-04. . .

Umm.. That's not to say it was in production when Saab engineers specified M 1 5W-30 for the OPs 9-5.

Nooooo. Mobil released M1 0w-30 in 1996. The very first Saab 9-5 was a 1998 model.

===========================================
Originally Posted by Toros
Originally Posted by Nickdfresh
Um, what? 0W-40 was one of the recommended weights IIRC...

Wrong. Saab specifies 5W-30 Mobil 1...period. End of story. I own one. I know this. I have used only full syn 5W30 and have had zero oil related issues on my 04 9-5 Aero in 12 years and 104K miles of owning it.

Since you own one, please take a pic or a scan of the pertinent page(s) of the owner's manual, and post that so we can all evaluate which quality standards, and so forth, are discussed. Many manuals contain vague language such as, "a higher viscosity may be appropriate under certain conditions such as,. . ." A simple sticker on the fan shroud is only the starting point, certainly not to be relied upon as the conclusive guidance about how to oil your car!
 
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" Viscosity is a measure of the oils thickness. The thickness influences, among other things, the fuel economy. For best func-tion Saab recommends:For gasoline engines, SAE 0W-30 or 5W-30 engine oil.Some oil companies have engine oils meeting our requirements (GM-LL-A-025) but with other viscosities than what we recom-mend as a first choice. Those engine oils are also accepted.Extra engine oil additivesDon't add anything to your oil. The recommended oils are all you need for good engine per and protection. "

I just schooled all the haters. I owned this discussion... Yes!!!!
 
Originally Posted by ekpolk
A suggestion I've seen a few times here recently for suspected ring-related consumption is to try running a fill of Valvoline Premium Blue RESTORE. This is an oil specially designed by Valvoline for Cummins to remove heavy carbon deposits from the rings in a Cummins truck engine that is apparently plagued by this issue. It's very expensive ($75-80) per gallon, but apparently its "exotic" mix of largely ester base oils and other additives make it effective in removing the offending carbon, thereby reducing severe oil consumption problems.

Despite the expense, it might be worth a try if you are reasonably convinced the consumption issue is with the rings. Also, of course, the best clean-up in the world isn't going to repair worn out or damaged hardware, so consider this too. On the other hand, it sure would be cool to solve the problem with a jug or two of expensive oil, versus tearing your engine totally apart and spending thousands. Oh yeah, be sure to follow the usage instructions carefully. Also, make sure the jug says RESTORE on it, the "regular" "BLUE" stuff is not the same.

EDIT: Valvoline Premium Blue RESTORE is a 10w-30.


I'm in agreement with this and it is worth trying before one goes to the expense of a rebuild.
 
Originally Posted by Toros
" Viscosity is a measure of the oils thickness. The thickness influences, among other things, the fuel economy. For best func-tion Saab recommends:For gasoline engines, SAE 0W-30 or 5W-30 engine oil.Some oil companies have engine oils meeting our requirements (GM-LL-A-025) but with other viscosities than what we recom-mend as a first choice. Those engine oils are also accepted.Extra engine oil additivesDon't add anything to your oil. The recommended oils are all you need for good engine per and protection. "

I just schooled all the haters. I owned this discussion... Yes!!!!


You said the engine required M1 5w-30. The fact that the text you quoted:
- Doesn't mention Mobil 1 at all
- Indicates that 5w-30 and 0w-30 are simply recommended
- Indicates that viscosities other than what are recommended are acceptable

Means you just schooled yourself, congratulations
thumbsup2.gif
 
Screenshot of the 2005 9-5 owner's manual regarding oil selection:
[Linked Image]


Key quote:

Originally Posted by Saab
All gasoline engines - Fully Synthetic Engine Oil fulfilling GM-LL-A-025 requirements.


They list 0w-30, 5w-30 and 0w-40 as grades to expect to see this approval on.

This spec is now obsolete, and Mobil states:

Originally Posted by Mobil
Your vehicle manufacturer recommends a 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 or 5W-40 viscosity and oil that meets GM-LL-A 025. The GM dexos1 and dexos2 specifications are backward compatible to the older GM/Opel specification GM-LL-A-025 so dexos1 or dexos2 oils can be used in vehicles requiring GM-LL-A-025.

They then list the following oils:
- Mobil 1 AP 5w-30
- Mobil 1 EP 5w-30
- Mobil 1 ESP 0w-40
- Mobil 1 ESP 5w-30
- Mobil 1 AFE 0w-30
- Mobil 1 5w-30

Seems like a pretty broad range of lubricants are suitable for this application.
 
Originally Posted by Toros
" Viscosity is a measure of the oils thickness. The thickness influences, among other things, the fuel economy. For best func-tion Saab recommends:For gasoline engines, SAE 0W-30 or 5W-30 engine oil.Some oil companies have engine oils meeting our requirements (GM-LL-A-025) but with other viscosities than what we recom-mend as a first choice. Those engine oils are also accepted.Extra engine oil additivesDon't add anything to your oil. The recommended oils are all you need for good engine per and protection. "

I just schooled all the haters. I owned this discussion... Yes!!!!


Oh, you sad muppet:

Quote
Engine oil
To meet demands in Saab's extended service intervals all
engines are filled with specially designed synthetic factory fill
oils. Long service intervals, fuel economy and environmental
issues are the base for our choice of oil. By using oils approved
by Saab you minimise the tendencies for oil sludge build, by that
protecting the engine from harmful, wear increasing, deposits.
Approved oils:
All gasoline engines - Fully Synthetic Engine Oil fulfilling
GM-LL-A-025 requirements.
To ensure being able to take advantage of the Saab specified

service intervals, be sure to select a fully synthetic engine oil ful-
filling GM-LL-A-025 requirements.

Servicing/Oil changes:
To be able to use recommended service intervals the need to
use only approved engine oils is vital. Use only engine oils
approved for your engine. Service should be done according
to the recommended service intervals to optimize your engine's
function through out its entire life. Saab Automobile AB will not
take responsibility for any damage that might occur due to
neglecting to meet above mentioned requirements.
At your Saab dealers you can find Saab Genuine or Mobil
engine oils. Among those there are oils specially designed to
meet your engines specific needs. We recommend that you,
with the help of our skilled service personnel, choose your oil
from that selection.
Other oil companies also have engine oils approved according
to GM specifications. Oils meeting these standards may be
identified as synthetic. However, not all synthetic oils will meet
your engines requirements. You should only use oil that meets
your engines specific requirements (GM-LL-A-025).

Recommended oil viscosities
Viscosity is a measurement of the oils thickness. The thickness

influences, among other things, the fuel economy. For best func-
tion Saab recommends:

For gasoline engines, SAE 0W-30 engine oil.
Some oil companies have engine oils meeting our requirements

(GM-LL-A-025) but with other viscosities than what we recom-
mend as a first choice. Those engine oils are also accepted.

Extra engine oil additives
Don't add anything to your oil. The recommended oils are all you
will need for good engine performance


That's from the 04' manual, they don't appear to mention 5W-30 at all, but of course you can use it...
 
I have owned a 9-3 Viggen with the same engine for the last 7 years. I bought it with 80K ( it has now 150K) and noticed fairly quickly that it was consuming almost as much as yours, that's is a quart per 1000 miles. I tried the recommended thin oils 0W-30, 0W-40 and thicker ones 5W-50 without any noticeable improvements. I was also told that the engine needed new rings but I read in other forums that dirty rings can also be a cause of excessive oil consumption. The 1st owner drove mostly a lot of short city trips with an engine that barely reached normal operating temp. So I switched to Rotella 5W-40 ( an oil known for being good at cleaning) and drove a couple of fairly long day trips from AZ to CA and back. I drove it occasionally harder that I would normally when the engine is warm and I can say that within 10.000 miles, I was back to a very reasonable oil consumption of about a quart per 5000 miles at most. I suspect the dirty rings theory hold true. Even though my oil consumption has been reduced 5 fold, It does noticeably burn more oil during short city trips in hot weather such as traffic jams in above 100F. Bear in mind that I also switched to Top Tier premium fuel whereas the previous owner used cheap 87 gas, possibly compounding the dirty rings issue.
 
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Originally Posted by Toros
" Viscosity is a measure of the oils thickness. The thickness influences, among other things, the fuel economy. For best func-tion Saab recommends:For gasoline engines, SAE 0W-30 or 5W-30 engine oil.Some oil companies have engine oils meeting our requirements (GM-LL-A-025) but with other viscosities than what we recom-mend as a first choice. Those engine oils are also accepted.Extra engine oil additivesDon't add anything to your oil. The recommended oils are all you need for good engine per and protection. "

I just schooled all the haters. I owned this discussion... Yes!!!!



No you did not school anyone because you left out the 0W40 recommendation in the owners manual right below the 5W30 recommendation along with the successor time the GM LL is DEXOS which includes 40 grades. Junior you can stop with the act and post facts.
 
Originally Posted by nutellabc
I have owned a 9-3 Viggen with the same engine for the last 7 years. I bought it with 80K ( it has now 150K) and noticed fairly quickly that it was consuming almost as much as yours, that's is a quart per 1000 miles. I tried the recommended thin oils 0W-30, 0W-40 and thicker ones 5W-50 without any noticeable improvements. I was also told that the engine needed new rings but I read in other forums that dirty rings can also be a cause of excessive oil consumption. The 1st owner drove mostly a lot of short city trips with an engine that barely reached normal operating temp. So I switched to Rotella 5W-40 ( an oil known for being good at cleaning) and drove a couple of fairly long day trips from AZ to CA and back. I drove it occasionally harder that I would normally when the engine is warm and I can say that within 10.000 miles, I was back to a very reasonable oil consumption of about a quart per 5000 miles at most. I suspect the dirty rings theory hold true. Even though my oil consumption has been reduced 5 fold, It does noticeably burn more oil during short city trips in hot weather such as traffic jams in above 100F. Bear in mind that I also switched to Top Tier premium fuel whereas the previous owner used cheap 87 gas, possibly compounding the dirty rings issue.


Hi!

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation of your story!!

Since i own the car i have only used premium grade fuel in it, and also tried switching to Mobil1 5w50 with no luck. I guess the issue could be the same with mine, the previous owner was surely using it with standard fuel which is quite crappy in Hungary. I have just dropped the oil and filled it up with Mobil1 10w60 Motorsport formula, not because of the viscosity mainly, but the additives used in it. Mobil states they can help to restore the valve stem sealing (which was also mentioned by mechanics to be a possible cause), and can keep the engine clean. (I have contacted the hungarian Mobil1 importer, because i was looking for the Mobil1 Extended Life -for the reason i just wrote- and they told me that its discontinued and Motorsport Formula is the replacement product).

I did not dare to try any carbon-cleaning oil additives, i was hoping that with premium fuel and finding the right oil i could extend the life of my engine before the teardown and renewal. I don't think i can do any miracles, but i would be satisfied with a result like yours, so i could use my car a bit more and get to know it, before i present it (and cripple my wallet) with basically a new engine.

I have already heard two good oil recommendations in this thread which i am thankful for you guys! I mean the Valvoline Premium Blue Restore and now the Rotella. Could you specify the Rotella a bit more? Or is that a brand with a smaller product line, and i can easily identify the one you mean?

Thank you everyone for helping me, i really appreciate every explanation and suggestion. I also read my owners manual (that was the first thing i did actually) and haven't found any forbidding words regarding the use of other lubricants. I think that as far as i only use fully synthetic and i keep an eye on the ACEA and HTHS values i won't demolish my engine. Or i am utterly wrong?
smile.gif


Thank you again, and please keep the lot's and lot's of info coming, I am thankful for every bit!

May the oil be with you!
BI
 
I don't think you will be able to find Shell Rotella in Hungary. In Europe Shell sell Rimula as their equivalent.

I would be tempted to go all-out. Either get yourself some expensive but very impressive Valvoline Blue Restore and run it for 10,000km or try and get some Kreen and pour it down each of the cylinders through the spark plug holes. Let it soak and run into the oil and run it for another 1,000miles or so to try clean up the piston rings.
 
I am originally from Europe, and the Saabs I own in Europe were fed Shell Helix 5W-40 by the dealer and they claimed it's one of the very best oil for these engines.
One of the know possible cause of oil consumption could also be leaky turbo seals as the oil is then burned by the catalytic converter without smoke if the leak is moderate.
I would caution against using any cleaning additives in these engines as the mesh on the oil pickup tube is very fine and dislodged deposits could end up causing oil starvation.
 
Originally Posted by nutellabc
I am originally from Europe, and the Saabs I own in Europe were fed Shell Helix 5W-40 by the dealer and they claimed it's one of the very best oil for these engines.
One of the know possible cause of oil consumption could also be leaky turbo seals as the oil is then burned by the catalytic converter without smoke if the leak is moderate.
I would caution against using any cleaning additives in these engines as the mesh on the oil pickup tube is very fine and dislodged deposits could end up causing oil starvation.


Thanks! I'll check the turbo seals a well.
smile.gif
 
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