HFCS vs sucrose in soda is not really that different

[y_p_w]

I've seen comments here talking about how much worse HFCS is that (usually) cane sugar in carbonated beverages. But there's just this fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of sucrose, which is actually just one fructose and one glucose molecule bonded to each other. There's a term for sucrose that's disassociated, which is "invert sugar" or "inverted sugar", which is done so through a chemical process.

Now HFCS is slightly biased towards more fructose - typically about 55% of the sugar. So theoretically it should be slightly sweeter 1:1 compared to invert sugar.

But the irony in all the claims about "cane sugar" in sodas ignore how carbonated soft drinks are made. They're usually heated in order to properly make the syrup. Most sodas have citric and/or phosphoric acid, and that disassociates sucrose in the presence of heat. Apparently this is called "acid catalyzed sucrose hydrolysis" and has been known about for over a century. I believe it will also happen slowly at room temperature if there's a cold dissolve process for the sucrose.

 

[eljefino]

Why is the mouth feel so different then?

 

[y_p_w]

Why is the mouth feel so different then?

I'm reading that about 3% of the dissolved solids in HFCS are not glucose or fructose. I suppose that could be removed via further refining, but it's an additional cost.

I frankly prefer HFCS to sucrose in carbonated beverages.

But I'm really just getting at this idea that "cane sugar" in sodas is superior in every way to HFCS. The basic premise there is that it's complete dissolved sucrose, which can't be the case for any acidic beverage.

 

[Vercingetorix]

It’s not the sugar, it’s the glass bottle that makes all the difference. You can get USA coke in glass bottles and it is noticeably better than plastic or aluminum.

 

[Jetronic]

I've seen comments here talking about how much worse HFCS is that (usually) cane sugar in carbonated beverages. But there's just this fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of sucrose, which is actually just one fructose and one glucose molecule bonded to each other. There's a term for sucrose that's disassociated, which is "invert sugar" or "inverted sugar", which is done so through a chemical process.

Now HFCS is slightly biased towards more fructose - typically about 55% of the sugar. So theoretically it should be slightly sweeter 1:1 compared to invert sugar.

But the irony in all the claims about "cane sugar" in sodas ignore how carbonated soft drinks are made. They're usually heated in order to properly make the syrup. Most sodas have citric and/or phosphoric acid, and that disassociates sucrose in the presence of heat. Apparently this is called "acid catalyzed sucrose hydrolysis" and has been known about for over a century. I believe it will also happen slowly at room temperature if there's a cold dissolve process for the sucrose.

think the major difference is that hfcs feels more sticky in the mouth. I dunno, haven't had hfcs sodas in 25 years.

 

[JavierH19]

It’s not the sugar, it’s the glass bottle that makes all the difference. You can get USA coke in glass bottles and it is noticeably better than plastic or aluminum.

It's not the glass bottles. It indeed is the sugar that makes all the difference. Plastic bottle coke is very common in Mexico since it's cheaper in small bottles as the upfront cost of the glass bottles is higher since they're supposed to be returnable so you don't pay as much the next time and there are no glass 1 or 2 liter bottles either but people still buy in bulk. I've brought glass and plastic bottle coke from Mexico and compared it to US recipe aluminum and plastic coke and tasted them at the same time and the difference is very obvious side by side no matter what container. The recipes are different and is easy to look up.

Though I don't really drink coke when I'm in Mexico only when it's the only option. The Joya brand soda is incredible. My favorite is the peach soda and I like the punch and grapefruit one as well. But man that peach soda is something else I can't drinking it once I start. It must have cocaine in it. If not soda I'm enjoying Indio, Victoria, or carta blanca beer.

 

[Pew]

It's not the glass bottles. It indeed is the sugar that makes all the difference. Plastic bottle coke is very common in Mexico since it's cheaper in small bottles as the upfront cost of the glass bottles is higher since they're supposed to be returnable so you don't pay as much the next time and there are no glass 1 or 2 liter bottles either but people still buy in bulk. I've brought glass and plastic bottle coke from Mexico and compared it to US recipe aluminum and plastic coke and tasted them at the same time and the difference is very obvious side by side no matter what container. The recipes are different and is easy to look up.

Though I don't really drink coke when I'm in Mexico only when it's the only option. The Joya brand soda is incredible. My favorite is the peach soda and I like the punch and grapefruit one as well. But man that peach soda is something else I can't drinking it once I start. It must have cocaine in it. If not soda I'm enjoying Indio, Victoria, or carta blanca beer.

Indeed, absolutely is the sugar vs hfcs. Mountain Dew and other popular sodas will have "real sugar" vs hfcs in plastic bottles and those taste so much better.

I'm sure the glass bottles also help but imo real sugar all the way.

I want an orange jarritos now.

 

[JavierH19]

Indeed, absolutely is the sugar vs hfcs. Mountain Dew and other popular sodas will have "real sugar" vs hfcs in plastic bottles and those taste so much better.

I assumed all major brand soda in the US was hfcs. Didn't know some could be cane sugar. I know small brand sodas use cane sugar a lot and I recently had one that I can't remember the name of that was really good but pricey.

I can buy glass bottle coke in the US usually in the hispanic stores but it's in Spanish and says it's from C.V. Monterey so it's the Mexican recipe. I haven't seen a glass bottle in english or with a US located distributor on it.

 

[Pew]

I assumed all major brand soda in the US was hfcs. Didn't know some could be cane sugar.

I can buy glass bottle coke in the US usually in the hispanic stores but it's in Spanish and says it's from C.V. Monterey so it's the mexican recipe. I haven't seen a glass bottle in english or with a US located distributor on it.

Mountain Dew, Pepsi, and Sprite are ones that I know have natural sugar but I've only seen sprite consistently have it available. The others I've only come across by luck at random gas stations on road trips.

 

[oil pan 4]

Yeah HFCS has around 5% more F than regular sugar. I only know that because of my moonshine days about 30 years ago when I lived in Franklin county Virginia.
Always uses HFCS when we could get it, the higher F gave a better alcohol yield.

 

[y_p_w]

It's not the glass bottles. It indeed is the sugar that makes all the difference. Plastic bottle coke is very common in Mexico since it's cheaper in small bottles as the upfront cost of the glass bottles is higher since they're supposed to be returnable so you don't pay as much the next time and there are no glass 1 or 2 liter bottles either but people still buy in bulk. I've brought glass and plastic bottle coke from Mexico and compared it to US recipe aluminum and plastic coke and tasted them at the same time and the difference is very obvious side by side. The recipes are different and is easy to look up.

Though I don't really drink coke when I'm in Mexico only when it's the only option. The Joya brand soda which means jewel is incredible. My favorite is the peach soda and i like the punch and grapefruit one as well.

But it's not the sugar, or at least not the way that people claim it to be where they "taste sucrose" rather than a blend of fructose/glucose. It can't be given that sucrose disassociates into fructose and glucose in the presence of phosphoric acid. Not quite sure who the researchers are, but it was published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7293941/​

Abstract​

The qualitative quantitative composition of soluble carbohydrates have been determined in 16 frequently consumed soft drinks. The qualitative analysis was carried out by thin layer chromatography. The quantitative determination was done by column chromatography and spectrophotometric technique. Most of the soft drinks analyzed contain the monosaccharides glucose and fructose and the disaccharide sucrose. For some of the drinks, the amounts of these sugars vary from bottle to bottle of the same soft drink. This is probably due to a hydrolytic process of sucrose taking place during storage as a result of the acidic pH of the media. The content of total soluble carbohydrates of most of the drinks analyzed is rather high and may represent an important caloric supplement in the diet, considering the high consumption of these drinks by the Spanish population.​

 

[y_p_w]

Yeah HFCS has around 5% more F than regular sugar. I only know that because of my moonshine days about 30 years ago when I lived in Franklin county Virginia.
Always uses HFCS when we could get it, the higher F gave a better alcohol yield.

Did it do anything for congeners - especially methanol?

 

[oil pan 4]

Did it do anything for congeners - especially methanol?

I don't remember any real difference one way or the other. We didn't care about that stuff aside form burning it as fuel.

 

[y_p_w]

Indeed, absolutely is the sugar vs hfcs. Mountain Dew and other popular sodas will have "real sugar" vs hfcs in plastic bottles and those taste so much better.

I'm sure the glass bottles also help but imo real sugar all the way.

I want an orange jarritos now.

Say again?

https://smartlabel.pepsico.info/012000002250-0001-en-US/index.html#ingredients

Mountain Dew​

• Carbonated Water High Fructose Corn Syrup Concentrated Orange Juice Citric Acid Natural Flavor Sodium Benzoate (Preserves Freshness) Caffeine Sodium Citrate Gum Arabic Erythorbic Acid (Preserves Freshness) Calcium Disodium EDTA (To Protect Flavor) Yellow 5

I'm just saying that the general premise that one is tasting sucrose vs fructose/glucose is all wrong. If there's sucrose and an acid, that sucrose is going to nearly completely convert to fructose and glucose - possibly even before that syrup gets to the bottling plant. It's not exactly the same as HFCS, which is processed with cost considerations in mind that don't include a precise 50/50 blend, nor removing all non-sugars.

 

[eljefino]

For a while they made Pepsi and Mtn Dew "throwback" with retro graphics and real sugar. Bottlers are regional and this could have been a regional decision.

They also make "Kosher Coke" with real sugar and a bright yellow cap so buyers can spot the difference.

 

[Pew]

Say again?

https://smartlabel.pepsico.info/012000002250-0001-en-US/index.html#ingredients

Mountain Dew​

• Carbonated Water High Fructose Corn Syrup Concentrated Orange Juice Citric Acid Natural Flavor Sodium Benzoate (Preserves Freshness) Caffeine Sodium Citrate Gum Arabic Erythorbic Acid (Preserves Freshness) Calcium Disodium EDTA (To Protect Flavor) Yellow 5

I'm just saying that the general premise that one is tasting sucrose vs fructose/glucose is all wrong. If there's sucrose and an acid, that sucrose is going to nearly completely convert to fructose and glucose - possibly even before that syrup gets to the bottling plant. It's not exactly the same as HFCS, which is processed with cost considerations in mind that don't include a precise 50/50 blend, nor removing all non-sugars.

The ones that have real sugar are different colors.

 

[Pablo]

I’ll just say none of it is good for you!

 

[SC Maintenance]

Mountain Dew, Pepsi, and Sprite are ones that I know have natural sugar but I've only seen sprite consistently have it available. The others I've only come across by luck at random gas stations on road trips.

I haven't had any in a very long time, but they generally have it in Walmart here. I tried the Pepsi once, and though it was pretty good. I wouldn't even dream of drinking a regular pepsi. I will take a Mexican coke in the glass bottle. If its placebo affect or not - it definitely tastes better.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pepsi-Th...eiJRrPr5JdhZwln00K9SMBLpdkqXqTu8aAl8vEALw_wcB

 

[y_p_w]

For a while they made Pepsi and Mtn Dew "throwback" with retro graphics and real sugar. Bottlers are regional and this could have been a regional decision.

They also make "Kosher Coke" with real sugar and a bright yellow cap so buyers can spot the difference.

Oh - there's lots of options. Pepsi Real Sugar. A&W root beer made at A&W restaurants. But what I'm getting at is that it makes less difference than most people think given the acidic chemical cocktails that are most carbonated soft drinks.

I've seen that from time to time. 7Up has "Simple 7Up" although I think that's combination of sucrose and stevia.

I'm familiar with "Kosher Coke" although I've only heard of it in 2 liter bottles and the label (seems to vary by year) can list "cane sugar" or "sucrose". Regular everyday Coke with HFCS is actually Kosher. Orthodox Union symbol and everything.

I heard the issue around Passover is that some Ashkenazi Jews avoid legumes or other plants, including corn. Same goes for leavened bread.

 

[Carmudgeon]

There is a difference between the two sweeteners, but I think the value is overblown, which is why HFCS has proliferated.

In terms of cost-cut junk food, I've found a more marked difference in the quality of baked goods, like cookies, or what they try to pass off as "chocolate" in candy bars nowadays. Perhaps that's where all the sugar being saved from sodas is going, because there's less and less cocoa flavor in a typical candy bar. Then there's ice cream morphing into "frozen dairy dessert."

For something different, I'd rather have this, but it has become hard to find, even overseas.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/Asahi-Beverage-Mitsuya-Craft-Bottles/dp/B09N6R5J3V?th=1