Hey Oil Nerds!! -- Why aren't many using by-pass?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I believe through watching industrial oil systems that bypass filters are a great thing.

I've got one in th shed, which I have never been game to plumb into my car(s), as there's more hoses, more joints, and I fear that a reliability issue with the extra 5 feet of plumbing and 20(ish) components and sealing surfaces will cost me way more than regular oil changes will if something comes unstuck and empties the sump back of nowhere.
 
Originally Posted By: Phishin
Yep,I'm noob on here. Still learning everyday form this site. It's good info. But dang man, I gotta say, this is hands-down the nerdiest car-related message board I've come across by far. Bravo!!

So, I've been reading about by-pass filtration. I've found diesel pick-ups that have gone over 500,000 miles and NEVER changed the oil. Only changed the filters and added make-up oil.

So, if all you nerds are soooooo caught up in all kinds of weird specs and try to follow data results from Blackstone labs, and go out of your way stockpile hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars worth of your favorite oil and filters, why aren't you guys using by-pass filtration?

From what I've been reading, all these oil analysis you guys do is for the sake of obtaining maximum OIC's but NOT totally exhausting your oil.

Why not use a by-pass? I have feeling very few people use them on here, yet spend a lot of money for Redline, Amsoil, Motul, etc. etc.

Why?
 
Are you guys forgetting the fact that the by-pass system can later be removed off the car that's going to the junk yard for reasons other then the block and used on another vehicle?

With the info you learned from the first car using the UOA testing, you can jump right into long OCIs with just a few lab analysis to confirm the results. So the cost of one by-pass unit gets spread out over several cars (not including the filter changes).

That said, this site is all about oil changes (even with slightly extended drains) and oil deals. If we never changed our oils, who'd apply for all the rebates and buy quality oils for pennies on the dollar / FAR?
grin2.gif
 
IMO, the answer is roughly the same as what I posted in the Group V oil change discussion.

Quote:
TBN retention and fuel/moisture dilution will be as telling as anything else, and are often another reason why the more expensive fluids offer poor value proposition as majority content in oils. Add packs and a balanced lube design is more important. And good grp III oils will have similar oxidation performance as higher group lubes, so it is best to ensure that the only benefit, flow at ultra-low temperatures, is actually beneficial. If at your typical ambient temperatures, the viscosity is similar, then what's the point?


Some of this holds true. For vehicles that are primarily run for long, steady-state use, like over the road trucks, a shear stable lubricant with sufficient TBN may well be able to be bypassed, reduce soot loading and then just run for very long times.

For for passenger vehicles, what are the differences? First, most arent used on extremely long runs consistently. Sure, traveling salesmen and folks with really long commutes may be able to approximate this, but it just isnt the same as say, over the road truckers. As a result, the typical vehicle user has to worry a lot more about moisture and fuel in the oil as a means of degradation than a long-haul user necessarily needs to.

Sump capacity also has something to do with it. Large sumps with high levels of cooling can maintain temperature better, and thus should help reduce oxidation rate, which is chemically dependent but also dependent upon temperature. The larger sumps also have more active additive, more TBN buffering capability, etc.

Additives do get used up, VIIs get worn out, etc. All these things contribute to the need to refresh the oil. I do not buy 500k without needing to change the oil. There is bound to be some other aspect of the operation, either frequent filter changes, consumption, leakage, etc. that contributes to the replenishment of oil in the sump which keeps new additives coming in.

To me, the biggest benefit of bypass is to minimize soot loading. IMO the main determinant in many diesel engines has been when the soot loading was getting too high, not oxidative thickening, shear thinning, loss of adds or even necessarily loss of TBN or dilution of fuel/water. This is all especially the case for long-haul use which can be a fairly easy type of application (think highway cruising). If one can reduce much of the soot loading, then the time at which the oil must be replaced due to the dispersants being used up can extend out in time theoretically. My MB diesels all have a built in bypass filter in the oil filter itself, for this reason. But, newer ones dont have it in the filter. Why? Because more modern engines load soot so much slower than my older ones that it becomes a needless added cost, size and complexity. Remember, improving engine technology is a turnable knob in all this too!

But in the USA, most vehicles are gasoline operated, so soot isnt as great a concern, and most personal vehicles are governed by other issues associated with lube wear-out as I described before. So between the added cost, complexity, and other features of operation that have come to pass, I just dont see the need or ROI to be compelling.
 
The point of this thread is simply this: This forum is filed with good, heated debates regarding oil. People swear and stand by their beliefs like they were life and death oaths.

People nit-pick about how much III+ vs IV vs anything out [censored] is in a particular oil. People proudly boast that their oil has 900ppm of Moly vs. what everyone else is running. People brag about their iron levels in their oil after 10k miles. All kinds of stuff. Let alone all the expensive boutique oils and expensive FF filters people are throwing on their rides.

So, if all you guys are that worked up over some engine oil, why NOT add the filtration you can? I know I would if engine oil gave me a woody like it does you guys.

I'm a nerd too. I'm a chemist. Being a nerd is cool. LOL!!

In the next month or so, I'm buying a new truck. So, a by-pass filtration is going on it. I want the extra filtration. I still will use M1 15w40 or 10w40 and change the oil every 5000k. I just want my oil cleaner.

Don't you?
 
So there are three factors that people are saying that by-pass isn't for them:

1.) Cost. I say that's [censored]. It's just a few hundred dollars. You guys have ridiculous amounts of money wrapped up in Redline and Amsoil. If you can afford these oils and these expensive filters, but a $250 filter is over the top for you, then you can't afford Amsoil either. LOL!!

2.) Failture. This is just fear. Watch it carefully, see if it's leaking, etc. Take your time and install correctly. It can't be hard.

3.) Engine outlasting car. Do you guys just pour nice oil into your engines and let the rest of it go to [censored]? I got a 1990 K1500 Chevy truck with 170k miles. I got a 2000 Nissan Altima with 245k miles. Both go 85+ mph down the highway no problem. Smooth. Neither of them have any body rust. Cars don't just fall apart. They are neglected.

Don't be an oil snob and then treat the rest of your car/truck like [censored]. Come on Nerds.
 
You sound like a troll trying to sell a oil bypass filter system. You use them great. I do not nor the "fleet" of cars, trucks, vans, and SUV'S that I maintain use them. The spin on filter's that we use work just fine. BTW I do not use boutique oils or filters that cost more than 4 bucks. I just do not "see" enough "benefit" in using them. I have seen way too many engines last longer than other components on even the best maintained vehicle's. After a while the downtime and the unreliability of the vehicle even if not rust or accidents will either send it to the junkyard or for the for sale lot. So why are you buying a new truck?
 
I figured someone might think I'm a troll. I was just trying to get good feedback on the by-pass debate.

Yep, I feel ya on that one. Like on my Nissan Altima, it's 12 years old. almost 250k miles. Body is nice. But when the transmission goes soon, can I really justify putting a new one in it? I doubt it. But I probably will. $800 for a rebuilt transmission is a lot cheaer than a new car. Especially one that I've worked all the bugs out and know it forwards and backwards.

I'm getting a new truck because my boy will probably start driving my old 1990 truck. I want him to take it, because it give me a reason to upgrade to something new. I have saved so much money by NOT having a car payment and maintaining older vehicles, I think it's time to indulge a bit.

I need a truck to pull my boat, scooter trailer, and deal with harsh northern Indiana winters.
 
You selectively read the replies as if you're looking for validation of your direction. You asked "why" and received answers. Not accepting the answers because they disagree with your view is your prerogative, I guess. I've no problem with you putting on your new truck. Enjoy.
 
Originally Posted By: slalom44
Bypass filters aren't for everyone. There's extra plumbing that could increase the chances of a catastrophic failure and the concern over voiding the warranty. And if you don't drive many miles or keep your car long enough it's not cost effective - I have gotten 300K on a car without a bypass.

I happen to have the ideal circumstances to justify a bypass and the mechanical aptitude to install it properly. The average person couldn't do this.

This is the main reason.
 
In the rust/pothole belt daily drivers do wear out in spite of good maintenance. They reach a point where the value of the car does not justify the investment of time and money to repair them. Most people cannot buy a rebuilt transmission for $800 and install it themselves (It then becomes a $2,000 repair).

People here discuss oil because of the nerd factor....it's fun. If you study the site more and read between the lines, you will find out that nearly every knowledgeable person here agrees that following the car's manual regarding oil recommendation will result in extracting more than reasonable life and value out of one's vehicle. Case closed.

If you go the bypass filter route, then I suggest that you also only buy and use Snap On tools on that vehicle, Zaino car care products, etc., etc., etc.. Because....they are the best, and, you can.
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself

If you go the bypass filter route, then I suggest that you also only buy and use Snap On tools on that vehicle, Zaino car care products, etc., etc., etc.. Because....they are the best, and, you can.


Easy man. No reason get all butt-hurt over this thread and what I've typed on this forum. I never tried to be cocky or arrogant. I was playing the Devil's Advocate: I wanted to see why so many people who spend so much time worried about oil do NOT install use by-pass filtration. And I got a few reasons, they were hard to accept. I already gave my reasons.

So I figured maybe there were other reasons, and I was trying to coax them out.

But seriously, don't be a Richard-head to me on this forum. I am not that guy.
 
Please answer these before you proceed:

Do bypass filters remove water and fuel dilution?
Do bypass filters raise TBN?
What is the thickness of the hydrodynamic lubricating film of oil?
What is the typical particle size distribution seen in an oil sample?
What percentage of passenger cars are diesels?
 
Originally Posted By: Phishin
So there are three factors that people are saying that by-pass isn't for them:

1.) Cost. I say that's [censored]. It's just a few hundred dollars. You guys have ridiculous amounts of money wrapped up in Redline and Amsoil. If you can afford these oils and these expensive filters, but a $250 filter is over the top for you, then you can't afford Amsoil either. LOL!!

2.) Failture. This is just fear. Watch it carefully, see if it's leaking, etc. Take your time and install correctly. It can't be hard.

3.) Engine outlasting car. Do you guys just pour nice oil into your engines and let the rest of it go to [censored]? I got a 1990 K1500 Chevy truck with 170k miles. I got a 2000 Nissan Altima with 245k miles. Both go 85+ mph down the highway no problem. Smooth. Neither of them have any body rust. Cars don't just fall apart. They are neglected.

Don't be an oil snob and then treat the rest of your car/truck like [censored]. Come on Nerds.


Great. In that case, feel free to use one. I won't.

And probably nobody else will either based on your pushy ranting.


Did BITOG get posted recently to some site full of [censored]holes? Traffic of trolls here has gone up like five fold in three days.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Please answer these before you proceed:

Do bypass filters remove water and fuel dilution?
Do bypass filters raise TBN?
What is the thickness of the hydrodynamic lubricating film of oil?
What is the typical particle size distribution seen in an oil sample?
What percentage of passenger cars are diesels?


Enlighten me. Tell me man.

I think from what I've been reading, Most FF oil filters don't filter much under 20 microns. And if they do, they plug quick and you get little to zero filtration.

So, I'm assuming you're gonna tell me that most oil particles are larger than 20 microns. So, why worry about anything smaller. Right?

And also based on this (if I have the filtration size correct), you're gonna tell me that the oil film is greater than 20uM.....so a piece of dirty smaller than that isn't going to hurt anything, right?

Maybe I'm wrong. I really have no clue. Enlighten me.
 
Why don't these guys worry about additive depletion?
I dunno... but they SHOULD.

In Die Hard 2, Bruce Willis walked through Harlem while wearing a sign. Yes, this also was accomplished, but was not smart at all!

Additives are very real and very useful.
 
You would do well to do a bit of research on this site and check out the wealth of information available, especially older threads, instead of posting wise [censored] comments and wanting everything handed to you on a platter.

It's called GOYA.....GET OFF YOUR [censored] !
 
Originally Posted By: Phishin
So there are three factors that people are saying that by-pass isn't for them:

1.) Cost. I say that's [censored]. It's just a few hundred dollars. You guys have ridiculous amounts of money wrapped up in Redline and Amsoil. If you can afford these oils and these expensive filters, but a $250 filter is over the top for you, then you can't afford Amsoil either. LOL!!


Not everyone is running Amsoil or Red Line, either. If I were running Amsoil and working on extremely extended drains, I could see a point in considering bypass filtration.

I keep my oil clean by changing it at the manufacturer's specified intervals under warranty, not by extra filtration hardware.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom