Help with a body shop issue

Messages
1,356
Location
Missouri
So last month I hit a deer. I have full coverage insurance with progressive(my first mistake). So I send in pictures through the app. They review the pictures with an instant estimate. I immediately call because the instant estimate appears way off. They tell me they do not send out adjusters due to COVID and that if I think it’s off I need to take it to a body shop and they’ll send their adjuster when the vehicle is in the shop.

I take the truck to the collision center that shares a parking lot with my job. They agree I’m going to need more parts than what’s on the estimate. I ask if I can buy and bring the parts from my job as it’s a dealership and I’d prefer oem for certain parts. Sure, no problem they say. So I order a door skin, fender, mirror and headlamp. A few at my cost and a few cost -50% from dealerships trying to offload them.

Insurance comes back that they will not pay for a new door skin they want it repaired. I disagree and am stuck with non returnable parts anyway so I tell them go ahead with the repairs. In the meantime I get a letter from my bank that Progressive has canceled by claims check and the funds have been removed from my account. Apparently they’ve cut a new check to the collision center.

It’s now a month later and I’m one back ordered part away from everything being done. They sent me an email today saying I’ll only owe them $132. Doesn’t sound right I say, there’s $900+ worth of parts on the estimate that I paid for out of pocket and supplied to you for the repairs. I realize I have a $500 deductible but there’s still $400+ difference. They say that they’ve credited me with what I paid for the parts but the difference between that and what insurance is paying is their mark up and they are entitled to that. There was also a window and install labor on the estimate which I declined to have replaced since it was a minor scratch in a spot that didn’t hinder vision. They credited me the part but kept the labor.

At this point what do I do? If they had told me in the first place they do not use customer supplied parts I would have just went somewhere else. If Progressive had not canceled my check they sent out I would have paid for my parts with that, offered the body shop a take it or leave offer of just my $500 deductible. Last thing the body shop told me was they messed up on figuring tax and that I didn’t owe anything I was free to take the truck when they completed it.
 

cb_13

Thread starter
Messages
1,356
Location
Missouri
Yes on the latest estimate from the insurance company.

No leinholder, I own the truck outright.

I do not believe they had me sign anything. I’m sure the Progressive estimator handled that sort of authorization when he was there. I did give verbal authorization to replace the door skin instead of repairing the panel. So if there’s a labor difference there I have authorized that.
 
Messages
15,047
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
The biggest problem was getting your hands in the mess. You should have had nothing to do with buying parts yourself, the body shop should have ordered the parts from their pocket.
That is what I have done when my car is in the body shop. Things like magically make a part that is a week out appear overnight kinda thing.
 

cb_13

Thread starter
Messages
1,356
Location
Missouri
The biggest problem was getting your hands in the mess. You should have had nothing to do with buying parts yourself, the body shop should have ordered the parts from their pocket.
That’s what the shop and Progressive wanted, was to supply the salvage yard mirror, headlamp and aftermarket fender to be used.

I will never again accept an insurance company paying directly for the repairs. They can pay me and I’ll have it fixed the way I want. That’s how any claim I’ve had in the past has worked. It seems that a lack of knowledge of the process Progressive uses really complicated things for me.
 

Nick1994

$50 Site Donor
Messages
13,028
Location
Phoenix, AZ
That’s what the shop and Progressive wanted, was to supply the salvage yard mirror, headlamp and aftermarket fender to be used.

I will never again accept an insurance company paying directly for the repairs. They can pay me and I’ll have it fixed the way I want. That’s how any claim I’ve had in the past has worked. It seems that a lack of knowledge of the process Progressive uses really complicated things for me.
Progressive wanted you to buy parts for the body shop? So what’s the parts guy at the body shop do? Play with puzzles? Jenga? 1 person black jack?

When I got rear ended I dropped my car off on Friday and got a call Thursday the next week that it was ready to be picked up. My only communication in the meantime was that I didn’t want a used bumper, but they actually got a new one from a dealer (I didn’t buy it) for cheaper so it was no big deal.
 

cb_13

Thread starter
Messages
1,356
Location
Missouri
Progressive wanted you to buy parts for the body shop? So what’s the parts guy at the body shop do? Play with puzzles? Jenga? 1 person black jack?

When I got rear ended I dropped my car off on Friday and got a call Thursday the next week that it was ready to be picked up. My only communication in the meantime was that I didn’t want a used bumper, but they actually got a new one from a dealer (I didn’t buy it) for cheaper so it was no big deal.
No they wanted to supply the parts. Some aftermarket and some salvage.

I was able to source oem parts myself for less. My hope was to have a better repair for the same amount of money on parts(which I did the addition of the fender made parts money pretty well even with the estimate) and just be out my deductible and some labor difference on replace vs repair of the fender.
 

cb_13

Thread starter
Messages
1,356
Location
Missouri
So I guess the first question is are they allowed to mark up the parts that I supplied? Shouldn’t that money be used towards the repair of the vehicle the way I see fit or is it truly their money now since Progressive sent them the check and canceled mine?
 
Read your policy jacket completely, it is the insurance company's discretion what parts they will pay for on the estimate unless its a safery item(airbags). The estimate is just that an estimate, if additional damage is found after teardown it is the shops responsability to contact the appraiser for a supplement and insurance compay's approval prior to ordering additional parts or labor operations. Also Progressive doesn't owe you new parts they owe to put your vehicle to its "pre accident condition." Ive argued many many time with insureds that signed a policy without reading it entirely. Its all given to you when you buy the policy, but most folks don't bother to read it or say well my agent told me... so what if its not on the policy in writing it doesnt exist. Most personal auto policies are like this. The only way you get new oem parts is if its a new vehicle ( 1 year or less) with less than a certain amount of miles, its a safety item, you BUY an OEM endorsement, or the part is not available. Every insurance company does this and its very clearly stated in writing, when you sign the policy document you are saying you have fully read AND understood the policy. You should not have ordered OE parts without talking to your adjuster first.
 
Messages
1,620
On a vehicle without a lien, usually the insurance company cuts a check to you and it’s yours to do as you please. I find it odd they directly paid the body shop. The check is always paid to the vehicle owner and/or the lien holder so I’m confused how they directly paid the body shop.
 
Messages
18,438
Location
Michigan
Progressive is horrible when it comes to repairs- I have a neighbor who works as a claim adjuster for them. Sadly, it’s just a job to him- as he flat out admits they cheat people. He says 9/10 people don’t even bother asking anything-they just want it repaired. Then you get someone like myself who is a car guy who wants it done a certain way. I would be the customer Progressive would drop me for costing them extra money....

They funny part is that Progressive is quite often only the cheapest for a short time-then jump up quite a bit. But they always will go the cheapest route when it comes to repairs. And as of early this year-will flat out deny your claim if you challenge them. Had a co worker get that bomb dropped on him getting his truck fixed.

I had AAA...never had an issue with getting OEM or new parts when I want. Don‘t think I could ever have Progressive for any type of insurance if they plan to be that cheap.......
 
Messages
10,298
Location
MA
On a vehicle without a lien, usually the insurance company cuts a check to you and it’s yours to do as you please. I find it odd they directly paid the body shop. The check is always paid to the vehicle owner and/or the lien holder so I’m confused how they directly paid the body shop.
The shop usually makes you sign something that signs over the payment to them.
 
Messages
6,282
Location
Scruffy City
So, if you did not sign a direction to pay, then call Progressive and tell them you did not authorize direct payment to the shop. Unless there is some sort of weird law in your state, policy or the shop had you sign a direction to pay that should solve that issue.

That whole part sounds shady, I could see paying the shop direct for a supplement that would be pretty standard without other direction - but stop paying a draft and reissuing it to a shop or reversing an EFT without the insureds permission? If I were you I would seek out a copy of your state fair claims practices act, read your policy and anything you signed at the shop. (It would be a little unusual for a shop to not at least try to get a DTP though)

Now the parts issue: If they agreed to work with your parts then any additional fee associated should have been discussed. My position would be that they were not due a mark up of any sort on parts they did not advance payment for. What you paid is also irrelevant.

I would take the estimate, deduct the parts I supplied and the sales tax on them, deduct the window glass and sales tax on it. (By deduct I meant if they had an aftermarket fender at 230.96 on the estimate, I would deduct 230.96 plus tax.)

The door skin: so you have to figure out the book time to replace the door skin, deduct the labor time allowed on the estimate and you owe the difference added back. I'd suspect's the labor to replace an average door skin to be in the 5-6 hours range, but I can probably help with that if you will PM me the details on the vehicle. You also probably owe to paint the jambs on the door and possibly for some panel bonding adhesive or seam sealer. There could be some overlap too, depending on what else is on the estimate.

Once I had all that figured out, I would make my adjustments to the estimate and tell the shop what I owed them, or they owed me.
 
Messages
6,282
Location
Scruffy City
Read your policy jacket completely, it is the insurance company's discretion what parts they will pay for on the estimate unless its a safery item(airbags). The estimate is just that an estimate, if additional damage is found after teardown it is the shops responsability to contact the appraiser for a supplement and insurance compay's approval prior to ordering additional parts or labor operations. Also Progressive doesn't owe you new parts they owe to put your vehicle to its "pre accident condition." Ive argued many many time with insureds that signed a policy without reading it entirely. Its all given to you when you buy the policy, but most folks don't bother to read it or say well my agent told me... so what if its not on the policy in writing it doesnt exist. Most personal auto policies are like this. The only way you get new oem parts is if its a new vehicle ( 1 year or less) with less than a certain amount of miles, its a safety item, you BUY an OEM endorsement, or the part is not available. Every insurance company does this and its very clearly stated in writing, when you sign the policy document you are saying you have fully read AND understood the policy. You should not have ordered OE parts without talking to your adjuster first.

While true (at least for the most part) none of that is relevant.

He is not asking progressive to pay for the new OEM parts. He's obtained them and supplied them to the shop.

Based on the typical policy it is the insurance companies discretion what parts to pay for, it is the vehicle owners discretion what parts to use.
 
Messages
8,976
Location
Illinois
As much as I'd like to punish Progressive for being a rubbish company... this is not the way I'd ever try to do it.

If Progressive says you owe them $132, I'd just pay it, call it a lesson learned, and walk away from the mess that you created. No one with Progressive is not going to spend any amount of time, making infinite adjustments to this to assure that you are fairly compensated for the parts that you supplied for this repair.... plus the "adjustments" that you forced to the repair, as in supplying a new door skin when they wanted the old one to be repaired. They didn't want a new door skin, and it should have never happened in the first place.

The body shop should have never allowed you to supply parts on a job that you weren't paying for out-of-pocket. At a minimum, parts definitely shouldn't have been ordered until the real estimate had been created (by a Progressive adjuster, after inspecting the vehicle in person).

If you wanted parts other than what Progressive was providing, you should have been paying the body shop for the difference in the cost of the parts.

I've personally been involved with Progressive pulling a really sleazy strongarm stunt against a well established and respected body shop, just to try and make a point and get their way. And of course, Progressive was the insurance company paying the bills on behalf of the idiot who hit me. They sure weren't my insurance provider.

Just pay the $132 and walk away. You made your bed on this one...
 
Messages
5,383
Location
NJ
I agree with MrSilv (again). Never get in the middle of these things. First step is take it to a trusted body shop. In NJ at least, many body shops are trusted by the insurance companies to make estimates and handle things. I know my place is. Let them duke it out with the insurance company. They do that everyday and know the people. If this happened to me, I take to my body shop, they make estimate and handle the claim and perform the repairs. Easy peasy. If I didn't want a salvage part, I'd make a deal with the body shop on the side to provide it with my discount and work out the money aspects to make them whole.
 
Messages
2,310
Location
Juno Beach FL
Not everyone wants to do it this way, but it seems easier to have the insurance company and the body shop hash it out and have them fix what they both agree with. After its done, if it isn't back to good working order than the insurance company is on the hook to get it back to good working order.

Once you start buying your own parts and acting as a 3rd party go between the insurer and the body shop is when the complications start. The brands of part used for the replacements may not be your first choice, but IMO the complications that the OP is going through here just isn't worth the aggravation. If they get it fixed, and everything works by letting the two parties deal with it then life goes on. Even if you want to sell the car down the road, it is still flagged as being in an accident which will have the primary impact on the sellability and price. Whether it was OEM replacement panels or something used from a parts wholesaler should not impact the selling price for a used car that has been in an accident.
 

cb_13

Thread starter
Messages
1,356
Location
Missouri
As much as I'd like to punish Progressive for being a rubbish company... this is not the way I'd ever try to do it.

If Progressive says you owe them $132, I'd just pay it, call it a lesson learned, and walk away from the mess that you created. No one with Progressive is not going to spend any amount of time, making infinite adjustments to this to assure that you are fairly compensated for the parts that you supplied for this repair.... plus the "adjustments" that you forced to the repair, as in supplying a new door skin when they wanted the old one to be repaired. They didn't want a new door skin, and it should have never happened in the first place.

The body shop should have never allowed you to supply parts on a job that you weren't paying for out-of-pocket. At a minimum, parts definitely shouldn't have been ordered until the real estimate had been created (by a Progressive adjuster, after inspecting the vehicle in person).

If you wanted parts other than what Progressive was providing, you should have been paying the body shop for the difference in the cost of the parts.

I've personally been involved with Progressive pulling a really sleazy strongarm stunt against a well established and respected body shop, just to try and make a point and get their way. And of course, Progressive was the insurance company paying the bills on behalf of the idiot who hit me. They sure weren't my insurance provider.

Just pay the $132 and walk away. You made your bed on this one...
Progressive owes me nothing and I owe them nothing. They’ve fulfilled their obligations by cutting a check for the estimated amount. The only issue I have with them is that they canceled the check directly to me after I’d already deposited it and reissued a check for the entire adjusted amount to the body shop.

The body shop is refusing to credit me the amount insurance paid for parts. Example I got an oe fender for $250 insurance paid them $327 for an aftermarket replacement. Headlamp I got at $118 they were paid $280 for a salvage yard piece. The difference in all these parts would cover the cost of the door skin I purchased and possibly some of the labor difference between repairing and replacing it.

So my issue is I don’t think it’s right that they can charge me markup on parts I supplied. The next time they bring a wheel and tire in to get mounted they’re not going to let me charge them $60 in parts since they supplied their own and the dealership lost profit. That’s exactly what they’re doing to me and their claim is that they are entitled to make profit on the parts markup.
 

cb_13

Thread starter
Messages
1,356
Location
Missouri
Not everyone wants to do it this way, but it seems easier to have the insurance company and the body shop hash it out and have them fix what they both agree with. After its done, if it isn't back to good working order than the insurance company is on the hook to get it back to good working order.

Once you start buying your own parts and acting as a 3rd party go between the insurer and the body shop is when the complications start. The brands of part used for the replacements may not be your first choice, but IMO the complications that the OP is going through here just isn't worth the aggravation. If they get it fixed, and everything works by letting the two parties deal with it then life goes on. Even if you want to sell the car down the road, it is still flagged as being in an accident which will have the primary impact on the sellability and price. Whether it was OEM replacement panels or something used from a parts wholesaler should not impact the selling price for a used car that has been in an accident.
In hindsight that would have been much better. Let them fix it the way they insurance was willing to pay. Pay my deductible, trade it and let the bondo in the door be someone else’s problem.
 
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