Help with a body shop issue

Messages
5,352
Location
NJ
Progressive owes me nothing and I owe them nothing. They’ve fulfilled their obligations by cutting a check for the estimated amount. The only issue I have with them is that they canceled the check directly to me after I’d already deposited it and reissued a check for the entire adjusted amount to the body shop.

The body shop is refusing to credit me the amount insurance paid for parts. Example I got an oe fender for $250 insurance paid them $327 for an aftermarket replacement. Headlamp I got at $118 they were paid $280 for a salvage yard piece. The difference in all these parts would cover the cost of the door skin I purchased and possibly some of the labor difference between repairing and replacing it.

So my issue is I don’t think it’s right that they can charge me markup on parts I supplied. The next time they bring a wheel and tire in to get mounted they’re not going to let me charge them $60 in parts since they supplied their own and the dealership lost profit. That’s exactly what they’re doing to me and their claim is that they are entitled to make profit on the parts markup.
I see your point. The should rebate you the cost insurance paid for the parts minus their discounted cost. Insurance paid them $327 for the fender. They could buy it for say $227. They make $100 profit on the part. If you supply the part, they need to charge you $100 to make themselves whole. They should refund you their cost and only keep the difference between their cost and what insurance paid them. But that should have been worked out ahead of time before any work started.
 

cb_13

Thread starter
Messages
1,340
Location
Missouri
I see your point. The should rebate you the cost insurance paid for the parts minus their discounted cost. Insurance paid them $327 for the fender. They could buy it for say $227. They make $100 profit on the part. If you supply the part, they need to charge you $100 to make themselves whole. They should refund you their cost and only keep the difference between their cost and what insurance paid them. But that should have been worked out ahead of time before any work started.
I feel like they should have just told me upfront that they were not going to use my parts because they needed to make profit off of parts and labor. They would have lost the job but at least we all would have known upfront where they stood.
 
Messages
6,275
Location
Scruffy City
I don't understand the negative feedback on the OP.

Aside from perhaps not getting a clear agreement in what was involved in using his parts he has not done anything wrong.

If he had just checked the car into the shop and progressive would not skin a door and wanted to use AM/Used there would be barbarians at the gate with a brazen bull for Progressive.

It the body shop wouldn't fix the car the way he wanted they would be the scum of the earth around here...

Now he tries to get the car fixed the way he wants it without costing a lot extra, all of a sudden he should have just let what are apparently considered the two most crooked entities on earth according to BITOG wisdom (a shop and an insurance company) handle it? JHC.

An insurance policy is a contract between the insured and the company (since there is no lien holder (loss payee) there is no other party to the contract). The contract spells out each parties responsibility. I promise you that fix the car only progressives way is not in there. Unless it is a very strange policy "fix the car" is not even in there at all.

The contract between the vehicle owner and the shop is another contract entirely.

A couple of points of order:

Although progressive may have wanted to supply the parts, it is much more likely that their computer automatically looks for alternate parts and puts supplier information on the estimate. Depending on the type of part and the supplier the price might already include the shops mark up, or it might be marked up a percentage.

I suppose under the absolute strictest interpretation of indemnification one could make the argument that the PH was only owed the actual cost of the parts but I do not know anyone who would take it that far.

Under no interpretation I'm aware of would a shop be due more that a very minor handling fee for a part they did not supply.

Again:

Review the policy:
Review the repair agreement:
Review the applicable unfair claims practices act (or similar):
Determine the regulatory agency responsible for repair facilities in the state and any regulations which may apply to the situation.


I am kind of wondering if there is some animosity between these two facilities or if the shop is upset that delay in parts are affecting their scheduling and not happy about having to store the truck while backordered parts come in.
 
Messages
7,924
Location
MI
Maybe I missed it, but what circumstance triggered progressive to cancel the original check and pay the body shop directly?
 

cb_13

Thread starter
Messages
1,340
Location
Missouri
Maybe I missed it, but what circumstance triggered progressive to cancel the original check and pay the body shop directly?
That I do not know. I’ve contacted customer service a few times and they tell me that is a question for their adjuster and he will have to call me at a later date.
 
Messages
374
Location
Northeast Georgia
The original estimate that most any insurance company agrees to pay out is always WAY less than what it will actually cost to repair the vehicle. There's a reason behind it. They WANT the customer to cash/deposit the check...and as soon as this happens, they can legally wash their hands of the incident and you cannot make a 2nd claim. This saves them A LOT of money.

The correct way this is handled is that the first check to either be issued or signed over to the body shop. When the body shop completes the repairs, they bill the insurance company for the difference. Any disputes are between them.

The insurance company's job is to "make you whole" when your car is repaired. If you want OE parts/materials....you can absolutely demand it and don't accept anything less. Go as far up the ladder as you need to...even get your state's insurance commissioner involved if needed. Been, there, done that and got the t-shirt.
 

cb_13

Thread starter
Messages
1,340
Location
Missouri
I had the parts I supplied in stock before the apt was set for the truck. I even delivered them to the body shop with the help of a parts counterman and our porter because they were too booked up to have someone come get them.

The back order parts are some of the more minor items that they were supplying. I believe just a window moulding is left to come in. Which I’m not upset about that fact. Everything is on back order right now regardless of brand, oe or aftermarket.
So I don’t see why waiting on parts from me would have upset them. I get the suspicion the business is struggling and they’re not willing to let any potential profit get away. Which is funny because the didn’t fix a ding on the opposite side of the hood before painting it. Which I asked about getting an estimate for adding to the job since they were to paint the entire hood anyway.
 
Messages
7,924
Location
MI
I speculate that maybe Progressive made you whole initially with their check to you, but then the body shop felt slighted (lost parts profit) and they convinced Progressive to make it "right" for them?

Not to be jerk here, but we are only hearing your side of the story. Maybe the body shop decided they did not like deal. Are you on good terms with them or have they shown a cold shoulder?
 
Messages
5,352
Location
NJ
I don't understand the negative feedback on the OP.

Aside from perhaps not getting a clear agreement in what was involved in using his parts he has not done anything wrong.

If he had just checked the car into the shop and progressive would not skin a door and wanted to use AM/Used there would be barbarians at the gate with a brazen bull for Progressive.

It the body shop wouldn't fix the car the way he wanted they would be the scum of the earth around here...

Now he tries to get the car fixed the way he wants it without costing a lot extra, all of a sudden he should have just let what are apparently considered the two most crooked entities on earth according to BITOG wisdom (a shop and an insurance company) handle it? JHC.

An insurance policy is a contract between the insured and the company (since there is no lien holder (loss payee) there is no other party to the contract). The contract spells out each parties responsibility. I promise you that fix the car only progressives way is not in there. Unless it is a very strange policy "fix the car" is not even in there at all.

The contract between the vehicle owner and the shop is another contract entirely.

A couple of points of order:

Although progressive may have wanted to supply the parts, it is much more likely that their computer automatically looks for alternate parts and puts supplier information on the estimate. Depending on the type of part and the supplier the price might already include the shops mark up, or it might be marked up a percentage.

I suppose under the absolute strictest interpretation of indemnification one could make the argument that the PH was only owed the actual cost of the parts but I do not know anyone who would take it that far.

Under no interpretation I'm aware of would a shop be due more that a very minor handling fee for a part they did not supply.

Again:

Review the policy:
Review the repair agreement:
Review the applicable unfair claims practices act (or similar):
Determine the regulatory agency responsible for repair facilities in the state and any regulations which may apply to the situation.


I am kind of wondering if there is some animosity between these two facilities or if the shop is upset that delay in parts are affecting their scheduling and not happy about having to store the truck while backordered parts come in.
There is being right and there is being effective. OP didn't do anything wrong but others have gone down that same route and been unsatisfied with the result. That's why I recommend to let the autobody shop deal with the estimate. Seems like a conflict of interest but if the insurance companies allow it, why not. Auto body shop takes full responsibility for the repair. You only pay your deductible. As soon as the owner gets in the middle, things go off kilter as seen above.
 
Messages
772
Location
MO
2 things I see here. Progressive shouldn’t have canceled the check they sent you without discussing it with you first. You may have signed a repair authorization at the shop that entitles them to endorse any check or have payment made direct to the shop. That still doesn’t make it right for them to cancel a check without notification. Every shop I’ve seen has the customer sign a repair authorization before starting repairs. I’d be surprised they’d begin repairs without this.

Second, the issue with you supplying parts and how the shop will be paid as well as any markup should have been ironed out first. The shops make money on the parts, sometimes a lot of money. Typically 25% on used parts and more on aftermarket and OEM. They may also have agreements to get OEM parts from dealers at the same price as aftermarket so they make the same markup and have less issues (fitment, customer pushback, etc). I’d just talk with the shop manager and discuss the markup they make on the parts and see if they can be reasonable working with you on the cost of parts and the labor for the door skin.
 
Messages
8,969
Location
Illinois
Progressive owes me nothing and I owe them nothing. They’ve fulfilled their obligations by cutting a check for the estimated amount. The only issue I have with them is that they canceled the check directly to me after I’d already deposited it and reissued a check for the entire adjusted amount to the body shop.
Progressive issued you a check. At that point, you could have done a few things with that check. You could have pocketed the money, and drove a damaged vehicle. You could have used that money and fixed it yourself with junkyard parts, and pocketed the remainder (if any was left). You could have used that money to hire someone to fix it on the side, in their garage.

However, when it was obvious that you were getting a body shop involved, which occurred when the body shop requested that an adjuster come to the body shop and provide an estimate for repairs, and was agreed to... then Progressive took back the money back that they'd paid to you. They're not in the business of paying for the same repair twice.

I'm not sure how you find that confusing. Progressive is going to pay the body shop directly. Period. They're not going to pay you, and then let you pay the body shop. That's not going to happen when it is their money, too many things to go wrong. Mechanic's Liens are one reason why, amongst other things. An insurance company pays a customer to pay a body shop. Before the repairs on the vehicle are complete, the customer goes to Vegas and loses all of the insurance money at the craps table. Then, when the body shop is done the vehicle, there's no money left for the body shop. Ooops.

They sent me an email today saying I’ll only owe them $132.

Who is "they"? I stupidly assumed it was Progressive, but now it appears to be the body shop. My position on that hasn't changed. You just need to pay it and move on.

The body shop is refusing to credit me the amount insurance paid for parts. Example I got an oe fender for $250 insurance paid them $327 for an aftermarket replacement. Headlamp I got at $118 they were paid $280 for a salvage yard piece. The difference in all these parts would cover the cost of the door skin I purchased and possibly some of the labor difference between repairing and replacing it.

So my issue is I don’t think it’s right that they can charge me markup on parts I supplied. The next time they bring a wheel and tire in to get mounted they’re not going to let me charge them $60 in parts since they supplied their own and the dealership lost profit. That’s exactly what they’re doing to me and their claim is that they are entitled to make profit on the parts markup.

So... the body shop needs to reimburse you for money that you saved them? Did the body shop agree to this up front? The problem is, it doesn't work that way. Maybe if the body shop is owned by your Uncle. And maybe not even then.

Again... Multiple issues created this mess. A body shop should not allow a customer to supply parts, unless the customer is the one paying the entire bill. That's their fault, and they should know better. And if a body shop is brave enough to allow a customer to supply parts on an insurance repair, parts should never be bought until the estimate is created. Why? The door skin is why. Which points back to that a body shop should never allow a customer to supply parts, unless the customer is the one paying the entire bill.
 
Messages
6,275
Location
Scruffy City
Progressive issued you a check. At that point, you could have done a few things with that check. You could have pocketed the money, and drove a damaged vehicle. You could have used that money and fixed it yourself with junkyard parts, and pocketed the remainder (if any was left). You could have used that money to hire someone to fix it on the side, in their garage.

However, when it was obvious that you were getting a body shop involved, which occurred when the body shop requested that an adjuster come to the body shop and provide an estimate for repairs, and was agreed to... then Progressive took back the money back that they'd paid to you. They're not in the business of paying for the same repair twice.

I'm not sure how you find that confusing. Progressive is going to pay the body shop directly. Period. They're not going to pay you, and then let you pay the body shop. That's not going to happen when it is their money, too many things to go wrong. Mechanic's Liens are one reason why, amongst other things. An insurance company pays a customer to pay a body shop. Before the repairs on the vehicle are complete, the customer goes to Vegas and loses all of the insurance money at the craps table. Then, when the body shop is done the vehicle, there's no money left for the body shop. Ooops.



Who is "they"? I stupidly assumed it was Progressive, but now it appears to be the body shop. My position on that hasn't changed. You just need to pay it and move on.



So... the body shop needs to reimburse you for money that you saved them? Did the body shop agree to this up front? The problem is, it doesn't work that way. Maybe if the body shop is owned by your Uncle. And maybe not even then.

Again... Multiple issues created this mess. A body shop should not allow a customer to supply parts, unless the customer is the one paying the entire bill. That's their fault, and they should know better. And if a body shop is brave enough to allow a customer to supply parts on an insurance repair, parts should never be bought until the estimate is created. Why? The door skin is why. Which points back to that a body shop should never allow a customer to supply parts, unless the customer is the one paying the entire bill.

Err, NO - SMH. Read the contract.
 
Messages
5,885
Location
Suburban Washington DC
They're not going to pay you, and then let you pay the body shop.
Some 30 years ago my fathers was lightly rear ended in his Z24. We drove to an Allstate drive-in claims center and they cut him a check for about $1300. I replaced the bumper cover and tail light after adding some shims to the bumper bar for maybe $150 in parts, then had it painted at a body shop for another $150. Looked like it never happened.

BTW a year or two later he had another fender bender in the rear requiring bodywork. They looked under the bumper and said it wasn't repaired properly. That the frame rail should have been replaced. I don't remember the details but he got a check as before and took it to a shop to get it fixed.
 
Messages
4,710
Location
Ohio
The insurance company issued a check for "x" amount which includes labor and parts. You supplied some parts instead of the shop buying them so now the shop is ahead that amount of money. What are they supposed to do with this "extra" money ? Give it back to you ? How do they explain that to the insurance company ?
 

wtd

Messages
2,646
Location
southwest Mo.
In my experience with several different insurance companies over the years, If I owned the vehicle outright, the insurance Co. paid me directly and it was my choice to get it fixed or not. The only time I ever had the insurance Co. pay the shop directly was if I still had a lien on the vehicle.

At this point I would just eat the $132 because IMO it's not worth the fight.
 
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