Help! Problems After Switching to Synthetic

[KitaCam]

Originally Posted By: jmb3675
I have seen different engine sounds between brands in the same weight. When I had Citgo synthetic blend in my car it was loud at start up and fairly quiet when warm, but really hard to start in the cold. I switched to Valvoline Maxlife and the engine was a little quieter at start than the citgo, and got a little louder when it warmed up.
Now it has Quaker State Defy in it. I hear what kind of sounds like a rod knock or piston slap at start up. I do not believe the knocking sound is caused by the oil at all, quite the opposite actually. The upper end of the engine is so much quieter now that I can actually hear it. It seems to go away when it warms up.


THIS...AND...EVERY ENGINE IS DIFFERENT...each engine will respond differently to different brands/weight ranges...

I switched from conventional to syn @ 100k miles...same weight range as before...

If I said that the Kitacam's 4-banger at @ 120k miles is running as quiet as can be with Pennzoil Platinum 5w30, that might mean NOTHING to your engine, any more than it might be quieter with Citgo or Quaker State...machines are like that.

The best advice to give is for to change brands when you can't stand the noise any longer...when it gets inside your head and won't let go...change to whatever new brand you'd like, or back to old faithful...and get back to us...

End of thread...for now (yeah, riiiight....)

p.s. I might have missed this...but...Have you checked the oil level?
...just to make sure you got all you were supposed to...

 

[71Chevyguy]

I would run it 7,500 miles and put in a different oil next time and see how it sounds then. Mobil 1 is good oil regardless of what brand you are a fan of and will not cause any issues or damage unless your engine is as dirty as a gas BBQ grill inside. It will probably get dark quickly because it will loosen up the dirt left behind by the bulk oil the car had previously. If it is pitch black in 500 miles then do a shorter OCI of 5,000 or less to flush the dirt out. While I myself will admit I have had certain engines be louder on M1 I really doubt it was doing any damage and used it anyway and never had issues. It meets many specs so it is a good oil. Just pay attention to the noise and see if it gets worse. I am almost willing to bet it has something to do with the power steering, I have repaired that system on those many times with all sorts of issues that made them moan and whine and chatter.

 

[Tony_Mack]

Thank you all so much for all the advice and help.

I've decided to just drive it for a while and closely monitor the situation.

I knew going into this that this would be a shorter OCI because the Mobil 1 oil would start cleaning out a lot of junk.

I think at the next change I'm going to switch back to 5W20 but for now I'm just going to see what happens.

 

[CaspianM]

Quieting an engine by using a thicker oil is a bad idea. Watch your bearings. Every engine should make noise to some degree but a making a quieter than what it is has long term consequences.

I have been using M1 since early 90's and never have had any engine pre-mature problems and all lasted near 200k when I sold them (and they were fine when sold) w/o any issues related to wear.
Having said that M1 has made some of my engines a tad louder but I have never minded a engine with some feed back rather a dead quiet car. That is one reason I have always stayed away from thick oil that kills my crisp low level throttle response.
Mobil 1 5w30 is a FF for many high end cars foreign or domestic.

OP needs to explain further what kind of intermediate noise he is experiencing? I doubt his issue is related to oil but for piece of mind he should switches to a different oil (Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra) as an experiment if the ABNORMAL noise persists.

 

[KitaCam]

Originally Posted By: CaspianM
Quieting an engine by using a thicker oil is a bad idea. Watch your bearings. Every engine should make noise to some degree but a making a quieter than what it is has long term consequences.....
I have never minded a engine with some feed back rather a dead quiet car.


This is true...but some brands of the same 5w30 seem "thicker" and insulate engines' sounds more...

....and running a full sump also seems to quiet engines than running it to "L" on the dipstick...hence my question about whether OP checked the oil level after the OC...I do every time...

...and like you I LIKE the feedback I get from the 4-banger's noise...

 

[Bamaro]

My best guess is that this is an example why scientific comparisons are normally double blind

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: boundarylayer
Originally Posted By: Tony_Mack
My wife drives a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan with 135K+ miles on it. The engine has always had a bit of a moan to it but now there's a ....


That happened to me once last year. Turns out my mother-in-laws foot was caught in the door. Opened door, no moaning anymore, problem solved, (except for the complaining later).


Duct tape would have solved that moaning.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Please elaborate on what difference that could possibly make.

I mean, every time you start your car or truck, aren't you starting up with a prefilled filter?

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
BTW - Don't prefill the filter.
Preface this by saying this is just my opinion as a mech engineer and having built a few engines and having done OC with prefilled and non prefilled:
With a prefilled filter you are putting an obstacle to flow into the galleries (after a warm OC drain) with emptied pickup and drill to the filter mount. This substantial slug of oil exist between the pump and the drill to the filter mount then you have the mains drills which most likely have some oil in them. Even though you will be sending a quick shot of air through the mains drills, there would be no large hydraulic resistance to pumping INTO the filter can as there will be with a 60-100CsT "cold" oil slug sitting in the filter that the pump must overcome. Now on my Subaru with a top inverted mount filter, I can pour oil back down into the pump so there is a prime of fluid going down into the pump from the upper filter mount - but I do not prefill the can.

 

[CaspianM]

A partial pre-fill actually help the pump prime faster than an empty can full of air. Some new engines inverted design employs reverse flow valve to prevent oil filter emptying itself by gravity.

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: Trav
Mobil 1 is a good cleaner, its probably cleaning the lifters/adjusters. Make sure its full and keep going.
At some point it will probably stop and the engine may be quieter than ever.
Deja Vu! Somebody named Frank used to say *exactly* the same thing about another product!!


Big difference between cleaning effect on lifter/adjusters and getting noisy because oil is getting to places in the engine it has no been in a long time.
If a moving part of the engine receives no lube its toast in short order.
A sticking lifter isn't moving its stuck but the wear surfaces are still being lubed.


The infamous_engine_cleaner_product_which_I_will_not_name had same claims. I am betting that neither of us believed the claims when it was posted by the proponents of that product.

In general, I simply do not believe in the maxim "things have to get worse before they get better". That goes double for any additive or base fluid. For example, all of the following claims are bogus

"Don't worry, it is fixing the seals that is why it is leaking; the leak will stop after it has done its work" ----- BOOOGGGGUUUUS

"Don't listen to your lying ears; that noise means it is cleaning the engine internals and when it has cleaned the internals, noise will go away" ------- BOOOOGGGGGUUUUUS

As far as OP is concerned, he seems to have changed quite a few variables such as brand, viscosity, filter(?) and at least I was not sure if the noise started immediately after the oil change or showed up after few hundred miles. Personally, not enough data has been provided to convict Mobil1

 

[CaspianM]

That is within the spec. Still I prefer the thinnest film oil that can provides the highest protection and best MPG combined. In reality there is a thin line where so called less noise better protection can reverse itself.

 

[Capa]

OP, I have a 2006 Dodge Caravan with the same 3.8 liter engine. I have been running either Mobil 5W-20 EP or Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w20 on a yearly OCI for about four years or so. I generally go between 8,000-10,000 miles. I have noticed no noise issues. Please use with confidence.

 

[kschachn]

Nice big paragraph, but can you explain again how a prefilled filter is different than just starting my cars every day? All mine have either an ADV or sit face up.

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Preface this by saying this is just my opinion as a mech engineer and having built a few engines and having done OC with prefilled and non prefilled:
With a prefilled filter you are putting an obstacle to flow into the galleries (after a warm OC drain) with emptied pickup and drill to the filter mount. This substantial slug of oil exist between the pump and the drill to the filter mount then you have the mains drills which most likely have some oil in them. Even though you will be sending a quick shot of air through the mains drills, there would be no large hydraulic resistance to pumping INTO the filter can as there will be with a 60-100CsT "cold" oil slug sitting in the filter that the pump must overcome. Now on my Subaru with a top inverted mount filter, I can pour oil back down into the pump so there is a prime of fluid going down into the pump from the upper filter mount - but I do not prefill the can.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Nice big paragraph, but can you explain again how a prefilled filter is different than just starting my cars every day? All mine have either an ADV or sit face up.

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Preface this by saying this is just my opinion as a mech engineer and having built a few engines and having done OC with prefilled and non prefilled:
With a prefilled filter you are putting an obstacle to flow into the galleries (after a warm OC drain) with emptied pickup and drill to the filter mount. This substantial slug of oil exist between the pump and the drill to the filter mount then you have the mains drills which most likely have some oil in them. Even though you will be sending a quick shot of air through the mains drills, there would be no large hydraulic resistance to pumping INTO the filter can as there will be with a 60-100CsT "cold" oil slug sitting in the filter that the pump must overcome. Now on my Subaru with a top inverted mount filter, I can pour oil back down into the pump so there is a prime of fluid going down into the pump from the upper filter mount - but I do not prefill the can.



When you remove the filter (a "normally" located one) you break the seal to atmosphere which could allow the oil in the drill from the pump to the filter to empty.

All engines are different due to filter and pump location and main drill layout - some don't care. My wifes older 09 forester EJ doesn't care. My old Toyota 2az and Honda seemed a bit pickier or flakier.
Now, This is all just a thought exercise and not backed by test results. YMMV and carry on with what makes you comfortable, but ill say I've had less issues on OCI where I did NOT prefill the spin ons. On vertical mounts you could just 2/3 fill without issue of hydraulic hammer shot. As a side note, I was prefilling right to the point the filter inlet holes were under oil - maybe most of you don't.