Help please

[galaxy333]

Hi there, just would like to learn something if people can advise. My car is a front wheel drive so has a Transaxle, in rear axles GL5 oil is recommended but in my Transaxle GL4 is recommended I would assume to protect the brass syncro's? But when GL5 is needed for a rear axle how come it's not required in my vehicle?

Then I notice some gear oil's say GL4 - GL5 please can someone explain how you can use one of these in a GL4 gearbox with brass Syncro's be safe without it causing damage?
The reason I ask is I would like to try a different oil in my gearbox and I'm very limited by the GL4 spec but if using GL4 - GL5 spec oils then it opens many more opportunities to try different oils.

 

[901Memphis]

It might help if you tell us your vehicles make and model and what transmission it has.

 

[galaxy333]

Here is my vehicle info if it helps:

Build Date: 22.10.2009
Vehicle Line: S-Max/Galaxy 2006-
Body Style: 5 Door LMV (Galaxy)
Version: Series 50
Engine: Duratorq 2.0L DOHC CR TC Dsl 143PS
Transmission: 6 Speed Manual Transaxle - MMT6

 

[Shannow]

Not familiar with the vehicle, but in a rear wheel drive, there is typically a lot of "rubbing" within the pinion/crownwheel, as not only is there a 90 degree change of direction, it is usually set up so that the driveshaft is below the axle centreline to allow a lower floor height...this means that rather than straight "lego set" mesh, there is rubbing between the gears, and it needs a higher level of EP additives...e.g. GL5 (or obsolete GL6)

I'm assuming your set up is transverse FWD, so there's no 90 degree direction shift, the gearbox and differential are in the same housing, and due to the isolation and mass of the combined engine/gearbox, they tend to be a little more aggresive in their final drive gear arrangement (more lego gear like, straight gear contact, not rubbing)...and need less EP, and can get away with a GL-4

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: galaxy333
Here is my vehicle info if it helps:

Build Date: 22.10.2009
Vehicle Line: S-Max/Galaxy 2006-
Body Style: 5 Door LMV (Galaxy)
Version: Series 50
Engine: Duratorq 2.0L DOHC CR TC Dsl 143PS
Transmission: 6 Speed Manual Transaxle - MMT6


OK... But what does it say on the boot lid?

 

[Trav]

Ford.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Ford.

I see now (using Google images). It's a little minivan. Ford appears to have resurrected the Galaxie name, but spelled it differently. Funny how it's RWD.

 

[Cardenio327]

OP has a Ford Galaxy; badge-engineered Seat Alhambra or VW Sharan, a small front wheel drive minivan built in Portugal.

GL-4 would be preferable to dual rated GL-4/GL-5. Straight GL-4 has half the extreme pressure additives of GL-5 while dual rated has the full amount, but supposedly not as soft metal damaging as a straight GL-5.

Try a VW, Seat or Skoda dealership. If all else fails Nissan probably has one that works pretty well, but it won't be the exact formula you need.

Motul makes a special GL-4 for VW manual transmissions, probably your best bet.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: Cardenio327
OP has a Ford Galaxy; badge-engineered Seat Alhambra or VW Sharan, a small front wheel drive minivan built in Portugal.

I sure got that wrong, didn't I? OP said it was FWD, but Shannow then said "if a RWD", and that's what I picked up on.

 

[galaxy333]

Hi there sorry for no replies been out all day, my car is the full Ford version, after 2006 Ford broke away and made their own multi purpose vehicle as it's known over here but still kept the same name

here's a link to it: http://www.ford.co.uk/Cars/Galaxy?campai...d-galaxy-phrase

The oil they recommend is this Ford oil part number WSS-M2C200 the only other I can find is this:

CASTROL SYNTRANS FE 75W

Fully synthetic manual gearbox oil meeting API GL4 and Ford WSS-M2C-200-D2 specifications, especially suitable for Ford, Honda & Vauxhall vehicles.

I have put in the Castrol to see if it improves the gear change but it was the same, so now I know about GL4 and GL5 thank you everyone

So I need to only look for the GL4 spec oils.

 

[jake88]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Not familiar with the vehicle, but in a rear wheel drive, there is typically a lot of "rubbing" within the pinion/crownwheel, as not only is there a 90 degree change of direction, it is usually set up so that the driveshaft is below the axle centreline to allow a lower floor height...this means that rather than straight "lego set" mesh, there is rubbing between the gears, and it needs a higher level of EP additives...e.g. GL5 (or obsolete GL6)

I'm assuming your set up is transverse FWD, so there's no 90 degree direction shift, the gearbox and differential are in the same housing, and due to the isolation and mass of the combined engine/gearbox, they tend to be a little more aggresive in their final drive gear arrangement (more lego gear like, straight gear contact, not rubbing)...and need less EP, and can get away with a GL-4


Excellent explanation of the difference in EP requirements between the hypoid (offset pinion/ring) and spiral bevel gear arrangements.

This question comes up all the time, but if you look for a fluid that meets the MT-1, MIL-L-2105E, or J2360 qualifications then you will get the added benefit of the "copper-safe" EP additives which do not corrode brass and bronze synchros. These lubes are much easier to find and are of a much higher quality than GL-4 lubes.

Really there are not GL-4 lubes anymore because the test equipment is obsolete. There is an industry standard that the GL-5 additive at 1/2 treat rate will qualify as GL-4 - but there are better specs now for gear lubes which require the brass/bronze compatibility.

 

[galaxy333]

Originally Posted By: jake88
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Not familiar with the vehicle, but in a rear wheel drive, there is typically a lot of "rubbing" within the pinion/crownwheel, as not only is there a 90 degree change of direction, it is usually set up so that the driveshaft is below the axle centreline to allow a lower floor height...this means that rather than straight "lego set" mesh, there is rubbing between the gears, and it needs a higher level of EP additives...e.g. GL5 (or obsolete GL6)

I'm assuming your set up is transverse FWD, so there's no 90 degree direction shift, the gearbox and differential are in the same housing, and due to the isolation and mass of the combined engine/gearbox, they tend to be a little more aggresive in their final drive gear arrangement (more lego gear like, straight gear contact, not rubbing)...and need less EP, and can get away with a GL-4


Excellent explanation of the difference in EP requirements between the hypoid (offset pinion/ring) and spiral bevel gear arrangements.

This question comes up all the time, but if you look for a fluid that meets the MT-1, MIL-L-2105E, or J2360 qualifications then you will get the added benefit of the "copper-safe" EP additives which do not corrode brass and bronze synchros. These lubes are much easier to find and are of a much higher quality than GL-4 lubes.

Really there are not GL-4 lubes anymore because the test equipment is obsolete. There is an industry standard that the GL-5 additive at 1/2 treat rate will qualify as GL-4 - but there are better specs now for gear lubes which require the brass/bronze compatibility.


I'm REALLY pleased I asked this I'm learning a lot today and for a long time I wondered what the difference was, I certainly didn't work out that my gearbox didn't have the hypoid gears, and the great explanation why cars do have them.
I'm really pleased to be able to ask and have my questions answered in a manner that even a novice like me can understand, I did work on racing motorcycles over 20 years ago but gearbox's on motorcycles and cars are so different, I have never taken a car gearbox to pieces but I have the engines many years ago, in those days I knew what spec to look for on oil but I never changed gearbox oil or axle oil in the past, I'm enjoying being on here it's a great place to learn.