Help me figure out why this battery failed

[Oro_O]

The car was towed home today because it lost electrics while on I-5 in Tacoma in morning traffic. Disturbing for her, and I don't want that happening again. 2002 ES300 in excellent condition and well maintained. The battery is from Kirkland/Costco (was in it when we bought it 2+ years ago; I usually go to Firestone so I make sure I get a JCI batter) and it is only 38 months old. Group 35, 800CA/640CCA. Only mark on the battery is "J2GAP" on the plastic, otherwise just the Kirkland labels and manufacture date stamp of 10/12.

It was 6.5V when it came off the truck. It charged rapidly to full voltage and will hold it sitting in the car. However, one cell looks funky. I took it to Napa who put a small tester on it and it pronounced it "bad" - presumably that cell shorting though I don't know how those things work. All the cells had clear electrolyte at a good level, and I keep the battery clean and waxed so no shorts from electrolyte trails on the exterior.

Here is a typical cell in the car. The car lives in Puget sound and has been driven 20mi each way to work and back, and never seen more than 90F or less than 30F, so very mild usuage.



This is what cell #1 looks like, with flakes of sulfation (?) in it:




I'm wondering what causes a battery to fail like this - though at the moment it's sitting and holing voltage though tests bad per NAPA. Can it be de-sulfated/corrected, or failing that, I'm looking for a JC made batter, group 24F (which will fit). I know Napa batteries are JC, and Interstate. Other places with good prices/sales/etc and good batteries? I have NAPA, O'Reillys, Costco (if they have other brands?), KMart, Autozone all nearby.

 

[Nick1994]

What do you mean why did it fail? It's 3 years old. I'd be absolutely thrilled if my battery were to last 3 years. We're lucky for 2 years in AZ.

It's a battery. I'm sitting here wondering why my aunt's 2013 VW Beetle TDI is falling apart LOL.

 

[zvm77us]

Costco now carries interstate

 

[mk378]

It sounds like a charging problem. When the car is running, all electricity is supposed to come from the alternator, not the battery. A perfectly good battery will run down until the car stalls out if the alternator does not keep it charged.

Charge up the battery and put it back in the car. Start the engine and measure battery voltage with it idling and all other electrical devices off. You want to see 13.5 to 15 volts. If it stays below 13 volts the battery is not being charged.

 

[WobblyElvis]

Get the charging system checked out and replace the battery. This is the only way to be safe.

 

[Oro_O]

1) "What do you mean why did it fail? It's 3 years old. I'd be absolutely thrilled if my battery were to last 3 years. We're lucky for 2 years in AZ. "

Because when I buy good-quality JCI batteries, they typically last 8 years. It's why I don't cheap-out on batteries.

2) The charging system is good. It puts out 14.4V above 1.5k rpm and 13.xx at idle.

This is a battery problem.

3) "Costco now carries interstate"

Now that is good to know, we do have a membership there, and there is one very close.

 

[marc1]

Originally Posted By: Or
The car was towed home today because it lost electrics while on I-5 in Tacoma in morning traffic.


You most likely have a charging issue. There would be no reason that the alternator could not sustain operation of the car sitting in traffic. You should verify the condition of the charging system first then look to the battery. Were there no indications of low voltage / charging issues from the instruments? I know you weren't driving but maybe check with the driver.

For what it is worth: 1) I generally get 8 years out of a battery. The battery in my Chevelle is exactly 10 years old (Delco). This is extreme but not by much. 2) KS batteries have been excellent for me, I use them on all my daily driver cars when the OE battery finally fails. I have one in my GMC right now. 3) Costco is also excellent for returns / issues etc. they may replace your battery or at least provide a pro-rate adjustment unless you are well out of the warranty period which 38 months may well be. 4) If the battery is ruined due to the deep discharge I would still get a new one from them after investigating the charging system 5) Just so I don't have to eat crow after the car is examined, there is a possibility the battery could have an internal short and this killed the car on the road. If that is the case, I suspect Costco would help with the replacement cost as barring abuse (which is not likely in your case) that is a defect.

 

[marc1]

Originally Posted By: Or

2) The charging system is good. It puts out 14.4V above 1.5k rpm and 13.xx at idle.

This is a battery problem.



Ok you posted while I was writing up my essay. Can you check the charging system under load?

 

[Jim_Truett]

Originally Posted By: zvm77us
Costco now carries interstate


And they are a typical Johnson Controls battery now.

Interstate Batteries

 

[Kruse]

I can't comment on your car or your battery, but sometimes a battery just fails.
About 4-5 years ago, the one-year-old battery in my mom's Ford Five Hundred failed. You could jump-start the car, but about 20 seconds after that, it would die. The connections were good, as well as the alternator. It was late on a Sunday afternoon and all local auto part stores were closed, so I dropped in a WalMart battery and it's been good ever since. A day after the old battery was taken out, it showed zero volts with a volt meter. Somehow, someway, it tested like it had a broken post.

 

[AKhan87]

Originally Posted By: Kruse
It was late on a Sunday afternoon and all local auto part stores were closed
where in Kansas, do auto parts close late on a Sunday afternoon?

 

[Donald]

It should either be tested on a conductive battery tester (Midtronics) or a carbon pile load tester (50% CCA).

You have the cells open, a hydrometer should spot something. You are looking for a cell that reads differently than the rest.

Charge it via plug in charger then get it properly tested.

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: marc1
Originally Posted By: Or

2) The charging system is good. It puts out 14.4V above 1.5k rpm and 13.xx at idle.

This is a battery problem.



Ok you posted while I was writing up my essay. Can you check the charging system under load?


With CC, lights, engine revving, output is 14.4V (the Alternator is new; I got a quality rebuilt ND (non Chinese rebuild at least) from O'Reillys last fall). I am measuring the voltage at the battery terminals. The alternator was my first suspicion and what the tow truck driver thought, since there is such a high incidence of failure with rebuilt ones nowadays.

She said it just lost power then the lights lit up, no warning and no charging light (and none is present at idle or under load). In the questionable cell I pictured above, there is considerable flaking off the upper plate brace, a piece 1/2 the size of your fingernail floated off when I poked it with a probe.

The tester NAPA applied said "bad" - it was a unit that looked like a typical OBDII scanner; I am unfamiliar with battery testers so don't know what options there are. Thanks for your help.

"Charge it via plug in charger then get it properly tested."

And that is what happened (used a Husky smart charger), and took it to Napa who said "Bad." And I am trying to interpret what that means and whether this was a poor quality battery, and the mechanism of what causes this. Not to lay blame or scream for a refund; just understand the chemistry better. I've never had a quality battery from a reputable vendor fail like this before in such a short time

 

[Merkava_4]

CHECK FOR PARASITIC CURRENT DRAW
1. Make sure battery is fully charged
2. Make sure all electrical accessories are turned off
3. Disconnect negative battery cable from battery post
4. Set multimeter on 20A scale DC.
5. Connect positive lead to negative battery cable terminal
6. Connect negative lead to negative battery post
7. Look at meter display to see if there's any current draw
8. Keep moving down the Amps scale until the meter registers a current draw
9. Anything over 50 milliamps is excessive

Do not open the doors while the Amp meter is hooked to the battery!

EricTheCarGuy

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
CHECK FOR PARASITIC CURRENT DRAW
1. Make sure battery is fully charged...


Since the battery is internally shorted, I'm interested in understanding that process first, and how to purchase a battery that is not prone to that. I'm not worried about the cause being elsewhere in the electrics, though this is a really good advice for someone who needs it.

 

[bullwinkle]

Be careful-an intermittently shorted battery may explode if the short occurs while it's being charged or shortly thereafter, due to the hydrogen gas from charging being present-I would ditch it & get another one.

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Be careful-an intermittently shorted battery may explode if the short occurs while it's being charged or shortly thereafter, due to the hydrogen gas from charging being present-I would ditch it & get another one.


Absolutely.

I was planning on leaving it on a trickle, vented, and use it if I ever need a starting battery for a tractor, etc., or for testing on the bench. The short is intermittent - happened driving and when I first went to charge it, but then a few minutes later charged. I am looking for a good deal on a quality 24F to replace it; it will not go back in the vehicle.

 

[CT8]

Bring the battery back to Costco and you should get some money back towards a new battery,

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Bring the battery back to Costco and you should get some money back towards a new battery,


It was a year-old in the car when we got the car; I'm not the original purchaser so I don't think the warranty applies.

 

[Kruse]

Originally Posted By: 01_celica_gt
Originally Posted By: Kruse
It was late on a Sunday afternoon and all local auto part stores were closed
where in Kansas, do auto parts close late on a Sunday afternoon?


I live in a somewhat rural area. The nearest Carquest store closes at noon on Saturday and is closed on Sunday. The nearest NAPA closes at 1:00 on Saturday and is closed on Sunday. Of course, WalMart is open 24 hours a day and is open on Sunday. If you don't believe me, shoot me a PM and I'll give you the location and the website of each auto parts store.