help me explain something to someone I know

[Flareside302]

Ok pretty simple. I'm having a buddy argue that its not ok to run a 0w30 in place of a 5w30 etc. He's saying its to thin etc for the force at start up.

My argument is that its thinner than a 5w to flow quicker, still has all same properties of chemical make up to protect it at cold start as that's the only time the 0w is noticed. He's saying it won't have enough wedge thickness etc to hold up to first rotational force of the rods etc.

What's best way to explain it in a better way to show its just fine.

 

[Roob]

Direct him to BITOG and he can educate himself....

 

[simple_gifts]

Well, he doesn't understand the concepts

Oil thins out as it heats up; ask him why it is not "too thin" at 180F.

It is really a question of how thick you want it went it is cold.

 

[barkingspider]

U can never convince him, he chooses to think what he wants. Don't bother wasting ur time.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: barkingspider
U can never convince him, he chooses to think what he wants. Don't bother wasting ur time.


Agreed. Too many people are wholly convinced that an oil needs to "thick" when cold. My old boss was a good example. He was ragging on a Havoline one time because when he poured it out of the bottle, it ran thin, like water, but his precious Kendall was good and thick, making Kendall the better oil.

Few realize that when a manufacturer sets an oil grade requirement, they set it for the oil's intended operating conditions.. Hot, and that it's more or less too thick at ALL other points. They don't realize that the perfect oil (from a viscosity standpoint) would never change from it's specified hot viscosity when cold.

 

[Tdbo]

Why not just let him run the 5W30 he wants to run and agree to disagree? Life is too short to argue over such triviality.

 

[901Memphis]

And to complicate things further a 5W30 synthetic could possibly be lighter at start up than a 0w30 if the temperature is high enough.

 

[fdcg27]

Direct him to the M1 site.
If XOM recommends 0W-30 AFE for virtually all 5w30 applications, then I think it's safe to believe them.

 

[bigjl]

Volvo recommended 5w30 for my old Volvo.

But for best protection and severe service they advised 0w30.

The use of 0w30 in SS was instead of shortening the oci.

I think i can understand the thinking behind that decision.

I don't think i could explain it though.

But that recommendation does, in my mind at least, prove that 0w30 is ever so slightly superior to 5w30

 

[Chris142]

Tell him that the 0w is much thicker @32f than the 30 is @ operating temp.

 

[cancov]

Oil came up in conversation yesterday at a family get together. The wife's uncle bought a 2013 Camry and I asked him what he thought of the 0w20 in the car and he goes to say that his car would never have synthetic in it because once he started, he would have to always put it in it. I asked whether he knew it come from the factory with synthetic 0w20, and he said, "No, not this car". My response, "Merry Christmas". Life is too short.

 

[Hosteen]

Well even at 100F, 0W oil is still too thick for ideal lubrication. You aquaintence doesn't understand the concept of multi-viscosity oil or oil viscosity period so don't waste your time.

 

[blackman777]

Originally Posted By: Flareside302
Ok pretty simple. I'm having a buddy argue that its not ok to run a 0w30 in place of a 5w30 etc. He's saying its to thin etc for the force at start up.

I agree with your buddy. Toyota back-specced 0w-20, 5w-20, or 5w30 for their Prius G2, but not the G1. Why? I have no idea, but I suspect they discovered the G1's engine experiences extra damage when running 0W-20 so that's why the don't recommend it. (Similarly nobody appears to be recommending 0W-16 in older engines.) POINT: There might be some reason your friend's carmaker did not recommend 0W-30... perhaps it simply doesn't provide enough protection.

 

[raytseng]

change the subject to regular and premium gas and argue over that.

But yea, the question is, does your friend want your advice or are you just arguing?
If he wants to know your opinion then you can explain.

If instead it's YOU that wants to win an argument or debate, I'd say cut your losses.

You can always explain things by taking the perspective of this is your point of view, and your way of thinking; but don't try to tell others what to do. That'll just be frustrating.

 

[cheesepuffs]

This is exactly why I don't talk about car related things with non-car people. Even many self-proclaimed car guys don't understand these things. Butting heads with people only gets me frustrated so I don't bother talking about cars in day to day life unless somebody asks me a specific question.

 

[dlundblad]

The multi grade stuff is where I get confused. I recently posted a question about 10w vs 5w 30 and what the true differences were. All I know is 10w30 is good for everything down to 0 degrees F. (How in the world did they make it work out that way? lol) I think I will personally run 10w30 through the summer, but into winter/ late fall, (whenever the oci becomes due) Ill switch to 5w30. I would only mess with a 0w if I was in Canada.

What Im really curious about is if I was to run a 0w30 in the summer... would that be ok? Not saying I was to do it.. Just curious so I can grasp the concept.

 

[raytseng]

yes, it should be ok.
In simple terms, without the corner cases and the "but what about..."

All the 0W,5W,10W will mean that these oils will act like straight thinner oils during startup and air temp, versus the operating temp.

The oil doesn't get thicker as it heats. The other way to think of it is the oil starts closer to the operating viscosity and doesn't thin out as much.
Imagine an oil that always was at the same viscosity regardless of temp, that would be the ideal oil.

The larger the difference, means the more additives or techniques used to modify how the oil behaves as it heats up.

Potentially when the oil wears out, then the additives stop working, and the oil behaves somewhat inbetween; that is the primary concern about a larger gap between say 0w-30. This should not be as much of a concern with modern oils

One thing to note is these grades are also a Range and not a precise single number. There are oils that are on the top end of a range, and others on the lower end of the range. The larger the gap, the more likely the oil will end up nearer to the bottom end of the range, especially as the additives wear away. So that could also be a potential concern.

However, if the car meats the specs of the "range" it should operate as designed even if the oil is at the low or high end of the same "range".

 

[blackman777]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
What Im really curious about is if I was to run a 0w30 in the summer... would that be ok? Not saying I was to do it.. Just curious so I can grasp the concept.
A 0W-30 is really a 0 weight oil, and it has additives to make it "act" like 30 weight as it gets hot. When the additives wear out, it may act more like a 0W-20 or even 0W-10, and is not enough protection for your car.

I'd rather run 5w30 year-round as it has greater odds of still acting like 5w30 when it ages. (Recommendation: Mobil 1 Extended performance.) Unless I live somewhere really cold like Maine or Minneapolis, then I'd switch to 0w-30 to make starting easier.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
What Im really curious about is if I was to run a 0w30 in the summer... would that be ok? Not saying I was to do it.. Just curious so I can grasp the concept.
A 0W-30 is really a 0 weight oil, and it has additives to make it "act" like 30 weight as it gets hot.


Ummm...no...it isn't

 

[oliveoil]

Functionally really won't make a bit of difference.