Help me choose a high zddp oil!

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awd4dr

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Choosing the correct oil has been a bit of a challenge or even an impossibility for me as of late since I tend to buy at wal-mart or auto parts stores nearby. I own a Lancer Evolution RS and will be upgrading my turbocharger in which the builder of the turbos have some oil quality requirements necessary for the increased wear potential as seen below.
http://store.forcedperformance.net/...0Recommendations%20for%20Motor%20Oil.pdf
It should also be noted that this engine will be above 300hp per liter of displacement and there is no type of catalytic converter installed. The factory fill back in 2005 was M1 10w30 synthetic.
My real question here, would rotella T6 5w-40 be okay to use year round? I live in the northeast so there may be times cold starts occur in the 20*F range. This has been about the only locally obtainable synthetic oil that comes close to the zddp requirements needed to support these types of turbochargers that I have found. What do you guys suggest? I am trying to stay away from a "RACING" type oil if possible. Maybe a more common synthetic in 10w-30 flavor with zddp additive? Any other oil reccomendations?
Thank you in advance for your help, your input and opinions are greatly appreciated.
 
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Redline comes to mind. Then what comes to mind is, why so lazy as to want to "buy your oil" at a super market, when you are playing "racer boy"(not a slam) and have a boat load of investment in your car. Seems like a very short sided move on your part. You pay to play and that also means "effort" into baby sitting your investment. UPS or FedEx in your oil if it can't be found in a 30 mile radius of your location.
 
The report on Forced Performance's website has some interesting points about how they generated the thrust bearing distress in the turbo. I particularly liked the multiple power holds they did with the engine.
They did some very short oil changes on 10w30 M1, presumably to dilute the 20w50 they had been running. I don't think that changing the oil and driving the car around the block a few times would eliminate the zddp coating that was already on the thrust bearing.
This is perhaps only proving that the turbo thrust bearing requires high viscosity at sustained high boost levels. It does not prove that high zddp is required, but when you buy an oil that is thicker than Xw30, you almost always get 1000+ ppm's-worth of zddp, so you just go with it. Plus, it's erring on the safe side.
I'm a big advocate of high zddp, and supplement the RT6 that I run in my Dodge Ram diesel with Redline oil break-in additive. Both times I have tried it, the Iron wear rate reported in the oil analysis was about 30% lower than with the straight RT6.
But I don't advocate using a diesel oil in a highly boosted gasoline engine. I advocate using full-synthetic high zddp (1200+ ppm of Phos) oil in turbocharged gasoline engines. And since Forced Performance's recommendation is to run 50-weight, I would say a full synthetic 15w50 by M1, AMSoil, or Redline would be the way to go. Maybe a 40-weight would work, but do you know of anyone that has tested it as extensively as Forced Performance has?
 
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Originally Posted by Mainia
Redline comes to mind. Then what comes to mind is, why so lazy as to want to "buy your oil" at a super market, when you are playing "racer boy"(not a slam) and have a boat load of investment in your car. Seems like a very short sided move on your part. You pay to play and that also means "effort" into baby sitting your investment. UPS or FedEx in your oil if it can't be found in a 30 mile radius of your location.

I was just hoping that there may be a solution that did not require a mail order delivery or 30+ min drive that would be a viable option is all. But I did enjoy your comments, keep being "you" and I will keep being a "lazy racer boy" who needs to put fourth more "effort". lol
 
Originally Posted by awd4dr
Originally Posted by Mainia
Redline comes to mind. Then what comes to mind is, why so lazy as to want to "buy your oil" at a super market, when you are playing "racer boy"(not a slam) and have a boat load of investment in your car. Seems like a very short sided move on your part. You pay to play and that also means "effort" into baby sitting your investment. UPS or FedEx in your oil if it can't be found in a 30 mile radius of your location.

I was just hoping that there may be a solution that did not require a mail order delivery or 30+ min drive that would be a viable option is all. But I did enjoy your comments, keep being "you" and I will keep being a "lazy racer boy" who needs to put fourth more "effort". lol

Does your local advance auto carry lucas products?
 
Originally Posted by A_Harman
The report on Forced Performance's website has some interesting points about how they generated the thrust bearing distress in the turbo. I particularly liked the multiple power holds they did with the engine.
They did some very short oil changes on 10w30 M1, presumably to dilute the 20w50 they had been running. I don't think that changing the oil and driving the car around the block a few times would eliminate the zddp coating that was already on the thrust bearing.
This is perhaps only proving that the turbo thrust bearing requires high viscosity at sustained high boost levels. It does not prove that high zddp is required, but when you buy an oil that is thicker than Xw30, you almost always get 1000+ ppm's-worth of zddp, so you just go with it. Plus, it's erring on the safe side.
I'm a big advocate of high zddp, and supplement the RT6 that I run in my Dodge Ram diesel with Redline oil break-in additive. Both times I have tried it, the Iron wear rate reported in the oil analysis was about 30% lower than with the straight RT6.
But I don't advocate using a diesel oil in a highly boosted gasoline engine. I advocate using full-synthetic high zddp (1200+ ppm of Phos) oil in turbocharged gasoline engines. And since Forced Performance's recommendation is to run 50-weight, I would say a full synthetic 15w50 by M1, AMSoil, or Redline would be the way to go. Maybe a 40-weight would work, but do you know of anyone that has tested it as extensively as Forced Performance has?

To answer your question, no I do not. But my perspective on the heavier weight oils is that for their testing purpose, they are using a non factory built engine that almost certainly has much looser clearances then my factory engine. Would I be correct to assume the thicker oil would not be ideal for my engine but better for only the turbo?
 
Originally Posted by Oildudeny
Originally Posted by awd4dr
Originally Posted by Mainia
Redline comes to mind. Then what comes to mind is, why so lazy as to want to "buy your oil" at a super market, when you are playing "racer boy"(not a slam) and have a boat load of investment in your car. Seems like a very short sided move on your part. You pay to play and that also means "effort" into baby sitting your investment. UPS or FedEx in your oil if it can't be found in a 30 mile radius of your location.

I was just hoping that there may be a solution that did not require a mail order delivery or 30+ min drive that would be a viable option is all. But I did enjoy your comments, keep being "you" and I will keep being a "lazy racer boy" who needs to put fourth more "effort". lol

Does your local advance auto carry lucas products?

Yes.
 
Originally Posted by awd4dr
Originally Posted by A_Harman
The report on Forced Performance's website has some interesting points about how they generated the thrust bearing distress in the turbo. I particularly liked the multiple power holds they did with the engine.
They did some very short oil changes on 10w30 M1, presumably to dilute the 20w50 they had been running. I don't think that changing the oil and driving the car around the block a few times would eliminate the zddp coating that was already on the thrust bearing.
This is perhaps only proving that the turbo thrust bearing requires high viscosity at sustained high boost levels. It does not prove that high zddp is required, but when you buy an oil that is thicker than Xw30, you almost always get 1000+ ppm's-worth of zddp, so you just go with it. Plus, it's erring on the safe side.
I'm a big advocate of high zddp, and supplement the RT6 that I run in my Dodge Ram diesel with Redline oil break-in additive. Both times I have tried it, the Iron wear rate reported in the oil analysis was about 30% lower than with the straight RT6.
But I don't advocate using a diesel oil in a highly boosted gasoline engine. I advocate using full-synthetic high zddp (1200+ ppm of Phos) oil in turbocharged gasoline engines. And since Forced Performance's recommendation is to run 50-weight, I would say a full synthetic 15w50 by M1, AMSoil, or Redline would be the way to go. Maybe a 40-weight would work, but do you know of anyone that has tested it as extensively as Forced Performance has?

To answer your question, no I do not. But my perspective on the heavier weight oils is that for their testing purpose, they are using a non factory built engine that almost certainly has much looser clearances then my factory engine. Would I be correct to assume the thicker oil would not be ideal for my engine but better for only the turbo?


Not necessarily. Lots of engine builders try making more power by loosening up clearances, but that forces them to use thicker oil in order to maintain safe oil film thicknesses. But in a highly boosted engine it is better to maintain tighter bearing clearances to minimize film pressure and maximize film thickness for long bearing life. Thicker oil in the same clearance will still yield a thicker oil film, all else being equal. But the downside of thicker oil is that it doesn't drain back to the pan as quickly as thin oil, making the engine subject to loss of oil pressure, such as at the end of a run at the drags. If you are planning to use your engine in pretty much the same way that Forced Performance describes in their report, you at least have one example about how 20w50 works in that situation.
 
15-50 is a good compromise IMO. i also live in Pa + do a LOT of mail order + if cost is an issue mobil I 15-50 likely a group III fake synthetic can be bought in some Wally stores or ordered in with free ship when you meet the required ship. myself it would without a doubt be Redline's 15-50 i use in my 2001 TT usually summer only. if thats a bit thick their 10-40 would surely do. for extreme applications like yours either Ester or PAO oils should be used IMO, cheap compared to engine or turbo damage for sure
 
Originally Posted by awd4dr
Originally Posted by Mainia
Redline comes to mind. Then what comes to mind is, why so lazy as to want to "buy your oil" at a super market, when you are playing "racer boy"(not a slam) and have a boat load of investment in your car. Seems like a very short sided move on your part. You pay to play and that also means "effort" into baby sitting your investment. UPS or FedEx in your oil if it can't be found in a 30 mile radius of your location.

I was just hoping that there may be a solution that did not require a mail order delivery or 30+ min drive that would be a viable option is all. But I did enjoy your comments, keep being "you" and I will keep being a "lazy racer boy" who needs to put fourth more "effort". lol



Oh well. You can lead a horse to water.....
 
I built/owned a highly modified Evo for a long time. I am assuming that you have the stock bottom end and OEM oil cooler. If this is the case, you would be fine with Rotella 15W-40 (yes, even in your cold temp starts). The 5W-40 would also be fine. If you have removed the oil cooler, you need a 50 weight oil as the oil runs much hotter without the cooler. In that case, your best option (that is easily obtainable) is Mobil 1 15W-50.
 
I'd use either Red Line HP 5w-30 or Joe Gibbs Driven LS30 5w-30. Both are PAO/ester based with 1200+ ppm of ZDDP, 400+ ppm of tri-nuclear moly, high HTHS, and low volatility. Perfect for a turbo car.

Forget Walmart. You live in Pennsylvania. You find either of the oils above at Summit Racing in neighboring Ohio with just 1-2 days shipping.
 
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