heavier oils and engine shake

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JHZR2

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Hi,

In one post, sometime back, someone mentioned that using heavier oils can reduce engine shake. I assume this is due to balancer chain tensioners, etc.

What is anyone's opinion on this? Can running, say a 40 weight over a 30 weight help reduce a very slight shake?

Say the engine is an old design V6, low miles, good running, excellent condition, specced for 5w30.

Thanks!

JMH
 
If it's an odd-fire or a semi-odd-fire it won't stop it from shaking at idle. If it's an even fire and a little lose the heavier oil might keep it from rattling around.
 
Engines which are not perfectly harmonically balanced tend to prefer some 'load' on them which has the effect of dampening out negative and zero-sequence harmonics. In theory, an optimally harmonically balanced engine would have 18 cylinders, equally spaced at 20 degree increments, thus mathematically causing complete negative-sequence harmonic cancellation, however, practical small reciprocating engine implementations mean engines use far fewer cylinders.

Using a 'thicker' oil in an engine increases the internal load on the engine, not only through the oil pump, but also through internal losses. This in turn causes the engine to generate fewer undamped negative-sequence harmonics, which in turn, causes the engine to feel 'smoother'. You could also accomplish a similar effect by putting a slight load on the engine. Many engines, for example, run smoother at idle with the air conditioning compressor or some other external load engaged. A little bit of load makes a lot of difference.

[ January 13, 2005, 01:45 AM: Message edited by: pitzel ]
 
Thanks mechtech. I should clarify, 'sequence harmonics', specifically positive, negative, and zero sequence harmonics are essentially, in the mechanical sense, torques. Positive sequence torques are the useful components that contribute positively to the engine's output. Zero-sequence torques represent internal losses, while negative sequence harmonics represent torque components that actually work to oppose useful work.

Essentially through the phenomena of constructive interferance, vibrations manifest themselves as combination of 3rd, 5th, and other higher-order odd-harmonic components which exist in naturally unbalanced engines.

An engine designer using an unbalanced design will attempt to incorporate mechanical filters, ie: flywheels, torsional springs, torsional dampers, etc., in order to attempt to filter out as much of the bad stuff as possible. But since engine load is dynamic, and filters cannot be re-tuned (mechanical filters are physical manifestations), the actual regions of passbands and stopbands of the harmonic filter will change as a function of overall engine load.

Where the 'science' really comes in is that through Fast Fourier Transform methods of analyzing vibration waveforms, we can actually determine the overall wear condition of individual parts and make predictions as to the conditions of individual cylinders without removing an engine from service. Online vibration analysis is a practice of maintenance engineering that is set to explode in the next few years as energy becomes signficantly more expensive and plants look for ways to improve their costs significantly. The gear and tools required have also dropped dramatically in price recently.

[ January 13, 2005, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: pitzel ]
 
I believe it also is true that the inline six cylinder is one of the inherently best balanced engine designs for those engine sizes typically used in automobiles and light trucks. Unfortunately the inline six is going the way of the dinosaur because of front wheel drive, cab forward, and packaging. Sad to say
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I have a Hundyi Sonada 4 cyl. I have used GC for the last 2 OCI. Until the engine is completly warm it idles rough. I took it in they put new belts on it and since then adjusted them.After warmup it runs very smooth + the oil reports are good so I think I will stay with the GC.
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quote:

Originally posted by TallPaul:
I believe it also is true that the inline six cylinder is one of the inherently best balanced engine designs for those engine sizes typically used in automobiles and light trucks. Unfortunately the inline six is going the way of the dinosaur because of front wheel drive, cab forward, and packaging. Sad to say
frown.gif


I agree. My 4.9L L-6 in my old 1989 F-150 idles smoother with 100,000+++ rough use miles on it than my 4.6L V-8 with 20,000 miles on it. But then the V-8 is soooo much more powerful and comfortable on the highway. Especially going up steep hills
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Whimsey
 
A lot of manufacturers are leaning out the mixture at idle to help emissions. This can cause the occaisional lean miss.
 
Pitzel Wrote: Using a 'thicker' oil in an engine increases the internal load on the engine, not only through the oil pump, but also through internal losses. This in turn causes the engine to generate fewer undamped negative-sequence harmonics, which in turn, causes the engine to feel 'smoother'. Interesting fact will try one OCI with Syntec 10/40 as a test and report the results.They adjusted the belt tensioner but these 4 bangers still vibrate without another shaft like the one in my SE-R.
 
I have an '03 Civic 1.7L VTEC (127HP). This is an "oversquare" engine, in that the stroke (95mm)is bigger than the bore, so it has a very long stroke for 1.7L displacement. I have read in various places that this type of engine will idle rough on heavy oil, and I tend to believe it based on several cold start-ups in very cold weather.

I have also observed on other cars (V8, V6) that having the A/C on will tend to smooth-out idle. My thought that the engine controller was increasing the richness a little to accomodate the increased load and to avoid stalling. However, I am sure that there are several variables!
 
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