HDEO and JASO

ZeeOSix

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JASO doesn't test to verify requirements... they only register oils at $365.00 a pop times 1,537 JASO registered
oils = $561,000 profit... Even if an submitter's paper work fails to meet specs their name will not be identify so
they will not lose market share... in other words JASO knows who failed but the public will never know...
In my opinion JASO is not much help because testing whether the oil pass muster or not falls right back to the owner...
I didn't say or claim JASO "tests to verify requirements" or anything along those lines. But as I've mentioned before in these discussions, in order for JASO to have specification documents they know what tests data needs to be submitted by the oil manufacturer in order to meet the their specs and get the oil registered.

The "muster" falls on the oil manufacturer regardless of JASO or not if they claim their oil "meets or exceeds JASO specifications". In order for an oil manufacture to meet that claim and put it on their bottles of oil they would have to do the same testing that JASO requires. If the oil manufacturers who make those claims actually do the tests and meet all the JASO requirements or not is left only to trust of the consumer since there is no verification from a 3rd party like JASO.
 
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If one can get pass the lure of oil can marketing and digest the contents they might note just how comparable Auto versus Motorcycle oils really are...

full-45634-35548-asmoil10w40v10w40m1.jpg
BLS, the only non-MC 10W-40 Mobil offers is their High Mileage version. And it has 870 PPM zinc per their specs as of 5/2022. The Mobil 10w40 oil you've shown doesn't EXIST.
 

BigJohn

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Costs 2x for marketing.


I'd recommend Mobil 1 15w-50 as well if you're stepping up to a 50w

Honestly Rotella should continue to meet or exceed any of your needs

I just purchased a 5 quart jug from WallyWorld for $25 for the BMW K-bike. It loves it.

All the other bikes with a wet clutch, will continue to get Rotella.
 
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I never paid much attention to Jaso certs and never had a problem with a wet clutch and I used car and diesel oils. I think it started off with good intentions founded by a need in the early motorcycling days in Japan, but at this point it’s lot of internet noise IMO. I’m not aware of European makes having such a spec.
 

ZeeOSix

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I never paid much attention to Jaso certs and never had a problem with a wet clutch and I used car and diesel oils. I think it started off with good intentions founded by a need in the early motorcycling days in Japan, but at this point it’s lot of internet noise IMO. I’m not aware of European makes having such a spec.
All the modern European made motorcycles probably call out the JASO oil spec. Here's a snip-it from a 2016 Triumph Daytona and Street Triple OM. I'd bet if you went and found the OMs for other EU motorcycles they would be calling out JASO spec oil too.

BMW calls out JASO rated oil too: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2013/MC-10150157-9999.pdf

1665085567182.png
 
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Lets say in my case, jaso ma2 oil , might pass muster for a ma2 clutch stall rating.

But that rating aint worth chit if it hard glazes fiber plates, down the road, and start slipping.


I litterally had 50,000 thousand mile fibers, clean as a whistle with dino oil , but ma2 synthetic trashed and hard glazed a new set in a short period of time.


So Ma2 means Jack, so dont let it fool you, its only a indicator of possiblity, until proven otherwise. Ofcourse an MB rating, does not meet clutch friction stall times, so thats a good indicator not to use it.
 

ZeeOSix

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Lets say in my case, jaso ma2 oil , might pass muster for a ma2 clutch stall rating.

But that rating aint worth chit if it hard glazes fiber plates, down the road, and start slipping.
That might boil down to the difference between an actual registered JASO oil (with the official JASO logo on the bottle) and one that just says "meets or exceeds JASO specifications" on the bottle ... the type of labeling you have no proof except to simply trust the manufacturer on their claim.
 
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That might boil down to the difference between an actual registered JASO oil (with the official JASO logo on the bottle) and one that just says "meets or exceeds JASO specifications" on the bottle ... the type of labeling you have no proof except to simply trust the manufacturer on their claim.
if it says meets or exceeds all jaso standards for motorcycle wet clutch and has ma2 badge , what else can do?
 
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I run Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15w40 in my wet clutches and zero problems. I also use walmart.com and just have it shipped.
yeah ive been testing that oil super 1300, seems very good clutch strength thus far. with no ma designation. price is very nice

im very doubtful about Delvac 1 though in a wet clutch, atleast i wont try it.
 

ZeeOSix

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if it says meets or exceeds all jaso standards for motorcycle wet clutch and has ma2 badge , what else can do?
See post #21. If the oil is not verified by and registeted by JASO, then it's all just trusting the oil manufacterer's statement on the oil bottle. Who's going to go through the trouble and cost to verify a claim on a bottle?

What oil brand are you saying was MA2 rated and glazed the clutch plates? Were they OEM plates, or aftermarke? If they glazed that fast, I'd think the clutch slippage would have been noticable while riding the bike.
 
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See post #21. If the oil is not verified by and registeted by JASO, then it's all just trusting the oil manufacterer's statement on the oil bottle. Who's going to go through the trouble and cost to verify a claim on a bottle?

What oil brand are you saying was MA2 rated and glazed the clutch plates? Were they OEM plates, or aftermarke? If they glazed that fast, I'd think the clutch slippage would have been noticable while riding the bike.
OEM plates , springs , valvoline 20w50 synthetic Motorcycle oil , not had issue with the Dino version

the glazed plates slipped in top gear under full throttle , I went through new fibers , heavier spring ect, till I eventually figured out , the fibres were hard glazed, and thats why it was slipping.

went back to dino valvoline mc oil after a light scrub of the plates with a steel brush, issue solved.

Since that time, MA2 rating is garbage to me, means nothing.
 
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Rotella T4 & T6 do not claim to meet the JASO MA/MA2 certification. They claim to meet the performance specification. This is an important distinction. You can't "meet a certification" anyway -- either your product is certified or it is not. In the case of Rotella, the product is not JASO MA/MA2 certified. But if Shell puts their reputation on the line by saying it meets the spec, well... it is most likely a good oil and many motorcycle owners have many years of good experience with Rotella.
Not only that but JASO T903/T904 require certification for use in gasoline engines. Rotella-T has dropped the gasoline rating yet Shell still claims it meets JASA MA which requires a gasoline rating the oil does not have.

As for worrying about the clutch: Read the JASO spec, it is a PDF available online (unlike SAE papers) and is very readable. It lists a number of common industry specs to be met such as SAE/API S-category gasoline engine. The only new requirement is the use of a custom wet plate clutch for friction. So, if you use an oil, your clutch does not slip, then you meet JASO MA's clutch test.
 
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JASO doesn't test to verify requirements... they only register oils at $365.00 a pop times 1,537 JASO registered
oils = $561,000 profit... Even if an submitter's paper work fails to meet specs their name will not be identify so
they will not lose market share... in other words JASO knows who failed but the public will never know...
In my opinion JASO is not much help because testing whether the oil pass muster or not falls right back to the owner...
But for the wet plate clutch test JASO T903/T904 are nothing but a paperwork exercise in listing all the other certifications the oil has met.
 
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Since 98, my Sporster has only had Harley Davidson oil , 20w50 ,it uses the same oil in the transmission,,never a problem,,,but , but and but,

I have been using Castrol, Actevo, 20w50 ,synthetic blend motorcycle oil...no problems....runs fine and shifts fine, no oil leaks .....
 
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Casrtol Power 1 M/C Oil with no JASO registration. Just says "exceeds industry specifications" similat to what Rotella and others claim.

Is that not the product which appears in the JALOS certification (or registration) list, here:
?

Whether or no, JALOS has all registered / certified oils on their website. That’s how one determines whether a particular oil marketer generated the necessary test data to demonstrate compliance and paid the small fee.
 

ZeeOSix

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Is that not the product which appears in the JALOS certification (or registration) list, here:
?

Whether or no, JALOS has all registered / certified oils on their website. That’s how one determines whether a particular oil marketer generated the necessary test data to demonstrate compliance and paid the small fee.
Could be it is in the JASO registry now. The photo I show of it in post #18 was took a few years ago when I bought the oil. I was always under the impression that if the oil is in the JASO registry that it should have the official JASO logo on the bottle with the registration number, like shown on the Yamalube oil in post #18.

1666555559902.jpeg


Matching numbers: M081YMC621.

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I had saved a couple of older JASO oil registry PDFs, and here is an older one an the newest one showing Castrol oils. Could be that a new bottle of the Castrol Power1 4T now has the JASO logo ... or maybe some companies don't elect to put the logo on the bottle, but I thought that as one of the requirments of JASO if the oil was registered with them. 🤷‍♂️

The older version shows two different "Power 1 4T" in 10W-40, so hard to say what's going on there.

1666555695763.jpeg


1666555732117.jpeg
 
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