HDEO 5w-40 vs Porsche A40 in 911 3.4 - Oil Foaming

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Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: BufordTJustice
I have read that it can trigger VarioCam error codes, but I did see that at Walmart. The Mobil 1 5w-50 is on the A40 list, but the 15w-50 is not. Let me look into the HTHS/KV100 for both. It's [censored] hot here for at least 10 months out of the year. Tarmac temps on a 98 degree day (like today as I look at the thermometer outside my window, in the shade) is easily 145 degrees+. All that heat radiates up onto the engine as well.

I'll research and report back.

UPDATE:

Mobil 1 5w-50 is KV100 of 17.5, with an HTHS of 4.4.
https://www.mobil.com/English-AU/Passenger-Vehicle-Lube/pds/GLXXMobil-1-5W50


Mobil 1 15w-50 is a KV100 of 18, with an HTHS of 4.5.
http://www.mobil.com/english-US/Passenger-Vehicle-Lube/pds/NAUSMobil-1-15W50


I have seen UOAs on the 5w-50 and it apparently shears out of grade fairly quickly in the M96 engine...sending KV100 down into the mid/high 15's and HTHS down to 4.1-4.2.

Might be worth an experiment, though. Thanks for the idea.


I wouldn't bother with the 5W-50. It's only marginally thinner than the 15W-50 and is chocked full of viscosity index improvers that are unnecessary in your application. Plus, it has been reformulated twice now (it's now "FS X2") so unsure of the additive package now.


Roger that. Good info. Thank you.
 
I just noticed that the Mobil 1 15w-50 has 1300ppm of Zinc, on par with the Delo 400 LE 5w-40 which has 1260ppm. The zinc/ZDDP, specifically, has been noted as being beneficial to the M96 engine series.
 
My friend's Stang dyno tests mid 700's - runs either Mobil 1 0w40 or 15w50 depending on his S/T plans for the car ...
 
Originally Posted By: 4WD
My friend's Stang dyno tests mid 700's - runs either Mobil 1 0w40 or 15w50 depending on his S/T plans for the car ...


That's good to know. Does his have the Coyote or Voodoo V8 (both of which have variable valve timing)? My concern is involving the variable valve timing system in the 911's M96 engine throwing trouble codes. It has been reported that is sensitive to oil viscosity...
 
Originally Posted By: BufordTJustice
Originally Posted By: 4WD
My friend's Stang dyno tests mid 700's - runs either Mobil 1 0w40 or 15w50 depending on his S/T plans for the car ...


That's good to know. Does his have the Coyote or Voodoo V8 (both of which have variable valve timing)? My concern is involving the variable valve timing system in the 911's M96 engine throwing trouble codes. It has been reported that is sensitive to oil viscosity...


There's no way to know if it will throw a code in your engine without giving it a shot. It won't cause any harm in the event that a code is thrown. Probably just the engine saying, "an X movement in the VVL solenoid caused a Y change in timing advance/retard, which is out of spec" probably due to increased oil pressure.
 
Originally Posted By: BufordTJustice


I have read that it can trigger VarioCam error codes



I have heard the same exact thing about 15W weight and greater regarding VarioCam. One way it was explained to me was the oil acts as hydraulic fluid for the VarioCam, and 15W is just too thick for the task.
 
Originally Posted By: NewYorkBuck
I have heard the same exact thing about 15W weight and greater regarding VarioCam. One way it was explained to me was the oil acts as hydraulic fluid for the VarioCam, and 15W is just too thick for the task.

So it triggers the code during startup?
 
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
There's no way to know if it will throw a code in your engine without giving it a shot. It won't cause any harm in the event that a code is thrown. Probably just the engine saying, "an X movement in the VVL solenoid caused a Y change in timing advance/retard, which is out of spec" probably due to increased oil pressure.


True.

Originally Posted By: NewYorkBuck
I have heard the same exact thing about 15W weight and greater regarding VarioCam. One way it was explained to me was the oil acts as hydraulic fluid for the VarioCam, and 15W is just too thick for the task.


Correct. If the ECU detects a variance when the engine is cold, it stays crewed up and in VarioCam-disabled mode until a restart. Clearing the code while the engine is running doesn't clear it from memory....only clearing and then restarting it will.

Originally Posted By: 4WD
So winter ratings impact valve timing at operating temperature?


The codes have shown up using 5w-50 as well on some cars. Seems to be a decent amount of variance per car....with no correlation to year/engine variant.


Originally Posted By: kschachn
So it triggers the code during startup?


Correct. So, I suppose starting, conducting warm-up, and then turning it off and restarting again when warm could "fix" the issue, as no permanent harm is being done. BUt that's a hassle I'd rather avoid.
 
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I'd say give it a shot. If it throws a code then maybe resort to Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40? (since you seem to want oil in jugs and have a 14+ KV100). The new T6 is CK-4 right, with lower anti-wear additives?

Edit: Here's the VOA of CK-4 T6
 
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Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
I'd say give it a shot. If it throws a code then maybe resort to Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40? (since you seem to want oil in jugs and have a 14+ KV100). The new T6 is CK-4 right, with lower anti-wear additives?

Edit: Here's the VOA of CK-4 T6


Yeah, I think I'm going to give it a shot. If it throws a code, I'll come back to EDGE 0w-40 or possibly Delo 400 LE 5w-40 (which I'll also evaluate and send to Blackstone). Delo is still CJ4 with almost 1300ppm of Zinc and hasn't had its AW additive pack raided....yet.

Thank you for the link....that CK-4 RT6 add pack is disheartening. KV100 still looks good, but Zinc is down, along w/ Magnesium. Delo has more zinc and more moly....with some formulations having boron as well.
 
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Originally Posted By: BufordTJustice
Yeah, I think I'm going to give it a shot. If it throws a code, I'll come back to EDGE 0w-40 or possibly Delo 400 LE 5w-40 (which I'll also evaluate and send to Blackstone). Delo is still CJ4 with almost 1300ppm of Zinc and hasn't had its AW additive pack raided....yet.

Thank you for the link....that CK-4 RT6 add pack is disheartening. KV100 still looks good, but Zinc is down, along w/ Magnesium. Delo has more zinc and more moly....with some formulations having boron as well.


Sounds like a plan! I'd also consider M1 turbo diesel truck. Lot's of people love it. It's $6 more per gallon at Walmart, so not too bad, and I would venture to say that means it is higher quality (I imagine walmart's margins on motor oil are all about the same).
 
Originally Posted By: 4WD
So winter ratings impact valve timing at operating temperature?


No, they impact valve timing at start up.
 
Originally Posted By: BufordTJustice
I would love, due to purely personal benefits, to see more 5w-40 Euro oils in 5 quart containers. THAT would prevent me from having to look at HDEOs to get the HTHS/KV100 vis I need.

I agree. Our store, Canadian Tire, has Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w-40. As you know, it's in 1 quart bottles. Them having only two of them in stock is worse than useless.
 
Originally Posted By: BufordTJustice
I would love, due to purely personal benefits, to see more 5w-40 Euro oils in 5 quart containers. THAT would prevent me from having to look at HDEOs to get the HTHS/KV100 vis I need.

Wouldn't most or all HDEO 5W40 beat PCMO Euro 5W40 on HTHS/KV100 ? IDK.
 
They do have an A3/B4 type 5w-40 up here from Mobil, but it's only sold in bulk. Shell needs to bring their 5w-40 as a 5 L or 5 quart container up here; I'm not completely afraid of an EcoBox, but most customers wouldn't even consider it. Castrol and Mobil brought the jugs in a while back already, after making us suffer with M1 0w-40 and GC 0w-30 in one litre bottles for ages. Selling your flagship A3/B4 product only in 1 L containers up here has Shell 5 years behind the times right now. They've concentrated on ILSAC viscosities for way, way too long and put way too much effort into them.
 
Not forgetting that only 3% of the Canadian population lives in Saskatchewan, where one is unlikely to find a Porsche', and 0W something is required 8 1/2 months of the year.
 
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