hd shotgun...non buckshot load for defense?
- Thread starter kmrinpa
- Start date
^^This^^
I personally like the idea of birdshot for the first few rounds in the tube. History has shown that he who gets shot with birdshot apologizes to the shooter.
How far away do you plan on shoot them for the pattern to be that large?
Have you seen the new 2 1/2" shells. That might be an option.
I'd go #4 0r #5 shot personally.
Regardless, if your target is under 15 to 20' feet away, you won't get much of a pattern, it'll me more like a slug. Spreader loads are available, but I haven't seen them on sale lately.
I'd go #4 0r #5 shot personally.
Regardless, if your target is under 15 to 20' feet away, you won't get much of a pattern, it'll me more like a slug. Spreader loads are available, but I haven't seen them on sale lately.
If I ever get around to getting a shotgun I'd be interested in this one. https://iwi.us/product/tavor-ts12/ Semi-automatic 15+1 capacity. I'd look for BB pellet size shells as a good compromise between buckshot and birdshot. Otherwise #2 shot could work.
OVERKILL
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I like this suggestion. I have a mag of Federal high brass 00 buck for mine that would be used if required, but I'm in a single dwelling with double brick walls, the reduced load sounds like a good compromise with shared walls.
thanks all...split house on opinions about bird shot vs buck shot with 1 non lethal thumper load; cleaned the maverick inside & out, confirmed function, ran 100 dry cycles with azoom snap caps, and loaded with the federal #4 heavy field load I obtained (1 1/4 oz payload rated at 1220 fps vs other loads at 1325 fps); next step is sling studs & butt stock shell carrier
30 years ago I killed an average sized whitetail doe and while skinning/butchering her I discovered a mass of birdshot pellets in her neck barely beneath the skin and not even down to the vertebrae. The pellet density was pretty high, indicating she had been shot from fairly close range before they had a chance to spread. There was no obvious wound and she appeared to have fully recovered with no noticeable impairment.
I learned all I needed to know about small shot as a defensive option from that deer. Birdshot lacks the sectional density needed to reliably penetrate into vital organs, especially if your home invader has a layer of fat or is wearing a heavy coat. You need big, dense pellets in order to maintain momentum. Round balls are very poor penetrators compared to pointy bullets. A 00 buck pellet and an 8mm rifle bullet are both 32 caliber but the pellet weighs around 80 grains and the bullet weighs 200+.
I learned all I needed to know about small shot as a defensive option from that deer. Birdshot lacks the sectional density needed to reliably penetrate into vital organs, especially if your home invader has a layer of fat or is wearing a heavy coat. You need big, dense pellets in order to maintain momentum. Round balls are very poor penetrators compared to pointy bullets. A 00 buck pellet and an 8mm rifle bullet are both 32 caliber but the pellet weighs around 80 grains and the bullet weighs 200+.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Excellent point.
Also, a few other points:
- Using lethal force, which a gun of course is, has requirements related to eliminating the threat, which you perceive to be life-threatening. This is why you cannot shoot to maim. I would question whether dusting somebody with birdshot knowing that the odds of it being non-fatal are high would also fall under that same category?
- If the person is on some sort of substance, what might hurt like hell and potentially incapacitate, but not kill, your typical sober person could be of no consequence to them. In this case, having an effective round chambered that is going to neutralize the threat posed by this individual is paramount.
In Canada, you absolutely need to be in a life-threatening situation to use lethal force, and you will still be charged, but if it is justified, the charges will be dropped. I have a mag of high brass 00 buck that will absolutely do the job, if, God forbid, the requirement to do so ever presents itself and I think that's how it has to be considered, IMHO.
Not sure about barriers such as walls but it’s not buckshot..
I have extensive firearms training and ballistics knowledge. I would never ever recommend bird shot for defensive use. There are at least 4 cases that I know of, where the person used bird shot and died because it didn’t incapacitate the attacker. The attacker them killed the guy who had birdshot loaded in his shotgun.
Bullets stop attackers in three way; blood loss, central nervous system damage, and psychological (I’ve been shot! I give up! Call me an ambulance!). Bird shot can not reliably stop a threat via any of these means. You have to remember that attackers are not normal people… they are acting that way usually becuase they are suicidal, they are high on drugs or alcohol, etc. The only way to stop these people is with deep penetration to vital organs.
When I lived in an apartment I loaded #4 buckshot. It’s the ideal self defense load for the average homeowner that is using a shotgun.
If you have access to a .223 rifle, if you load it with 55 grain soft points, it also has great ballistics and reduced penetration potential through building materials as well.
If you must use bird shot use the largest shot sizes which are B/BB/BBB/T sizes.
Bullets stop attackers in three way; blood loss, central nervous system damage, and psychological (I’ve been shot! I give up! Call me an ambulance!). Bird shot can not reliably stop a threat via any of these means. You have to remember that attackers are not normal people… they are acting that way usually becuase they are suicidal, they are high on drugs or alcohol, etc. The only way to stop these people is with deep penetration to vital organs.
When I lived in an apartment I loaded #4 buckshot. It’s the ideal self defense load for the average homeowner that is using a shotgun.
If you have access to a .223 rifle, if you load it with 55 grain soft points, it also has great ballistics and reduced penetration potential through building materials as well.
If you must use bird shot use the largest shot sizes which are B/BB/BBB/T sizes.
In the unlikely and unfortunate event that I'd ever need to defend my home, I want to know that what I choose to use is going to be effective at stopping the threat as quickly as possible and in as few shots as possible. I think most birdshot falls more into the category of things that "might" work. 00 buckshot is very proven in the field by law enforcement, etc. so that's my choice for my home defense shotgun.
I go for #4 buckshot. A typical 12-ga shell contains 24 pellets of #4 buckshot, which are 0.24 inch dia.
blog.beretta.com
This is an interesting point ...
"Why all this comparative detail? Well, with an approximate muzzle velocity of 1,200 fps for
these buckshot loads, that means the individual pellet in the #4 Buck load will have about 66 ft./lbs. of energy as it exits the muzzle and the #00 Buck pellet will have 172 ft./lbs. of muzzle energy. But let’s get impressive – the combined weight of 24 #4 Buck pellets is almost 497 grains. At 1,200 fps, the muzzle energy for the load is a staggering 1,589 ft./lbs. The combined weight of nine #00 Buck pellets is 484 grains for a muzzle energy readout of 1,547 ft./lbs."
Blog
blog.beretta.com
This is an interesting point ...
"Why all this comparative detail? Well, with an approximate muzzle velocity of 1,200 fps for
these buckshot loads, that means the individual pellet in the #4 Buck load will have about 66 ft./lbs. of energy as it exits the muzzle and the #00 Buck pellet will have 172 ft./lbs. of muzzle energy. But let’s get impressive – the combined weight of 24 #4 Buck pellets is almost 497 grains. At 1,200 fps, the muzzle energy for the load is a staggering 1,589 ft./lbs. The combined weight of nine #00 Buck pellets is 484 grains for a muzzle energy readout of 1,547 ft./lbs."
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Another vote for #4 Buck (not #4 bird).
We've succeeded in taking quite a few coyotes from point blank out to 60 yards with it, with full penetration.
We've succeeded in taking quite a few coyotes from point blank out to 60 yards with it, with full penetration.
Legally, shooting someone with a shotgun is considered lethal force. It doesn't matter what size shot is in it. You shot them. With a shotgun. Could tbey have possibly died? I bet the jury says "yes".
This. I prefer le13300. For slugs, its LE127RS.
OVERKILL
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Birdshot is for the birds. I like #1 buck
