I love my Frams that I use. Fram Ultra for all my oil filters. And I use their air filters with confidence too. I just don't see how people could hate a company so much, without any valid reason.
Hatred towards Fram
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Originally Posted By: SirTanon
Fram is an easy target because of their size. They're everywhere, and people recognize the name, as well as the bright orange filters. Add to that the fact that so many of the OCODs are sold every day/week/year that by sheer law of large numbers, there are bound to be some major QA failures..
.. If Fram only sold 50 OCODs a year, odds are good that nobody would ever hear about a bad one. Sell 5 million, and at least 1 of those is going to have some sort of random problem. No production line is flawless.
Then add to that the problems that WERE around, at least for a short time, years ago, and now you have a portion population that refuses to let go of those failures.. and then those people spread their stories around.
The same thing happens with Pennzoil, and the horror stories of their older products "causing sludge" - I must admit, even I wound up in that boat for a while, avoiding Pennzoil like the plague.. at least until I came here and found out differently.
Live and learn, right?
So how many filters does Puro sell in a year? Or, can only Fram use numbers as an excuse.
Fram is an easy target because of their size. They're everywhere, and people recognize the name, as well as the bright orange filters. Add to that the fact that so many of the OCODs are sold every day/week/year that by sheer law of large numbers, there are bound to be some major QA failures..
.. If Fram only sold 50 OCODs a year, odds are good that nobody would ever hear about a bad one. Sell 5 million, and at least 1 of those is going to have some sort of random problem. No production line is flawless.
Then add to that the problems that WERE around, at least for a short time, years ago, and now you have a portion population that refuses to let go of those failures.. and then those people spread their stories around.
The same thing happens with Pennzoil, and the horror stories of their older products "causing sludge" - I must admit, even I wound up in that boat for a while, avoiding Pennzoil like the plague.. at least until I came here and found out differently.
Live and learn, right?
So how many filters does Puro sell in a year? Or, can only Fram use numbers as an excuse.
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Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Originally Posted By: advocate
I see all the time people hating on fram. I used to a while back (for no reason) until I bettered myself by doing research mainly on this page. But constantly you will see someone post a 15 year old video on Facebook with some loser comparing a high end filter to a Fram extra guard (orange can of delight). And nothing you tell these people will change their mind it seems. They have no evidence of anything. But they would rather kill off a family member then use a Fram filter...
I don't know what it's going to take to change these people's minds. I mean geez they are already making awesome filters. The ultra can't be beat!. Efficiency numbers don't seem to mean anything to these morons blindly Fram bashing... These numbnuts are just so [censored] bent hating Fram. Chances are they have never used a Fram filter or been burned by one before.
I would like to see Fram succeed as I have become a fan of them and like that they are made in America. But people would rather buy a Chinese or Mexican made filter as long as it isn't Fram...
FYI.... Fram is more popular here now - than it's ever been - ever since Bob & Helen gave birth to this messageboard years ago.
Purolator used to be the cats meow (a best buy) here at BITOG. Now Purolator is the most hated.
I see all the time people hating on fram. I used to a while back (for no reason) until I bettered myself by doing research mainly on this page. But constantly you will see someone post a 15 year old video on Facebook with some loser comparing a high end filter to a Fram extra guard (orange can of delight). And nothing you tell these people will change their mind it seems. They have no evidence of anything. But they would rather kill off a family member then use a Fram filter...
I don't know what it's going to take to change these people's minds. I mean geez they are already making awesome filters. The ultra can't be beat!. Efficiency numbers don't seem to mean anything to these morons blindly Fram bashing... These numbnuts are just so [censored] bent hating Fram. Chances are they have never used a Fram filter or been burned by one before.
I would like to see Fram succeed as I have become a fan of them and like that they are made in America. But people would rather buy a Chinese or Mexican made filter as long as it isn't Fram...
FYI.... Fram is more popular here now - than it's ever been - ever since Bob & Helen gave birth to this messageboard years ago.
Purolator used to be the cats meow (a best buy) here at BITOG. Now Purolator is the most hated.
What's the definition of the term "hating on"?
I didn't use them because up until a few years ago they had some internals made of neoprene which were known to fail under cold (high) oil pressure on Cummins engines and send chunks into the engine. These chunks of neoprene frequently made their way into the piston cooling nozzles, causing engine failures. I always used Fleetguards on my Dodge/Cummins.
As far as in other applications, I think Fram has always been the bargain brand and a lot of people will simply turn up their noses at the most economical option with the logic that you get what you pay for. I think only people here on BITOG would ever consider researching filter options and maybe even go so far as to cut open a couple of them to compare quality. Most people will discount the most expensive option, and the least expensive option, and get something in the middle, remaining happily ignorant of the actual quality of the product they're getting.
As far as in other applications, I think Fram has always been the bargain brand and a lot of people will simply turn up their noses at the most economical option with the logic that you get what you pay for. I think only people here on BITOG would ever consider researching filter options and maybe even go so far as to cut open a couple of them to compare quality. Most people will discount the most expensive option, and the least expensive option, and get something in the middle, remaining happily ignorant of the actual quality of the product they're getting.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: SirTanon
Fram is an easy target because of their size. They're everywhere, and people recognize the name, as well as the bright orange filters. Add to that the fact that so many of the OCODs are sold every day/week/year that by sheer law of large numbers, there are bound to be some major QA failures..
.. If Fram only sold 50 OCODs a year, odds are good that nobody would ever hear about a bad one. Sell 5 million, and at least 1 of those is going to have some sort of random problem. No production line is flawless.
Then add to that the problems that WERE around, at least for a short time, years ago, and now you have a portion population that refuses to let go of those failures.. and then those people spread their stories around.
The same thing happens with Pennzoil, and the horror stories of their older products "causing sludge" - I must admit, even I wound up in that boat for a while, avoiding Pennzoil like the plague.. at least until I came here and found out differently.
Live and learn, right?
So how many filters does Puro sell in a year? Or, can only Fram use numbers as an excuse.
Sure, Puro can definitely use the numbers if they want... but in their case, the numbers don't seem to be working too well in their favor so far. Fram cleaned up their act. Puro is still knee deep in QA issues.
Originally Posted By: SirTanon
Fram is an easy target because of their size. They're everywhere, and people recognize the name, as well as the bright orange filters. Add to that the fact that so many of the OCODs are sold every day/week/year that by sheer law of large numbers, there are bound to be some major QA failures..
.. If Fram only sold 50 OCODs a year, odds are good that nobody would ever hear about a bad one. Sell 5 million, and at least 1 of those is going to have some sort of random problem. No production line is flawless.
Then add to that the problems that WERE around, at least for a short time, years ago, and now you have a portion population that refuses to let go of those failures.. and then those people spread their stories around.
The same thing happens with Pennzoil, and the horror stories of their older products "causing sludge" - I must admit, even I wound up in that boat for a while, avoiding Pennzoil like the plague.. at least until I came here and found out differently.
Live and learn, right?
So how many filters does Puro sell in a year? Or, can only Fram use numbers as an excuse.
Sure, Puro can definitely use the numbers if they want... but in their case, the numbers don't seem to be working too well in their favor so far. Fram cleaned up their act. Puro is still knee deep in QA issues.
We like what we like. We hate what we hate. I use wix myself. I might try a fram ultra in the future.
But don't think you can change anyone's mind. I'm not a Chevy or Toyota guy. They make good vehicles I'm sure but I won't buy either.
But don't think you can change anyone's mind. I'm not a Chevy or Toyota guy. They make good vehicles I'm sure but I won't buy either.
The FRAM bashing is for one simple reason: Visually, their construction quality does not look as appealing when they are cut open (except for the Ultra). The fact that FRAM's filtration efficiency outperforms nearly every competitive filter doesn't seem to matter to some people. Neither does years of success - such as cars making 200,000 miles or more on a basic FRAM orange can without any engine problems.
I seem to recall seeing pictures of cut open FRAM filters from the 80's, and they were built the same way back then. A lot of forum posts claim the construction change was much more recent as some sort of evil plot to destroy all of our engines. The fact is, this design has proven to work over decades of real-world use.
FRAM also makes oil filters for Honda, who wouldn't risk their reputation for building reliable engines if they felt anything was wrong with the filter's design or construction. I think they also make filters for Subaru.
The real odd thing about the FRAM bashing: 99% of it is about the end caps; yet these same people don't bash filter designs that have no end caps at all.
I will admit that I temporarily stopped buying FRAM filters based on what I saw on the Internet, but after looking back I realized this was silly. The product works perfectly fine for its intended purpose. Sometimes you can find a good filter that is a bit cheaper, but at the same time the pricing for FRAM is still competitive in most cases. There's no pattern of end caps separating, media tearing, or any other problem that would be a cause for concern.
I seem to recall seeing pictures of cut open FRAM filters from the 80's, and they were built the same way back then. A lot of forum posts claim the construction change was much more recent as some sort of evil plot to destroy all of our engines. The fact is, this design has proven to work over decades of real-world use.
FRAM also makes oil filters for Honda, who wouldn't risk their reputation for building reliable engines if they felt anything was wrong with the filter's design or construction. I think they also make filters for Subaru.
The real odd thing about the FRAM bashing: 99% of it is about the end caps; yet these same people don't bash filter designs that have no end caps at all.
I will admit that I temporarily stopped buying FRAM filters based on what I saw on the Internet, but after looking back I realized this was silly. The product works perfectly fine for its intended purpose. Sometimes you can find a good filter that is a bit cheaper, but at the same time the pricing for FRAM is still competitive in most cases. There's no pattern of end caps separating, media tearing, or any other problem that would be a cause for concern.
Originally Posted By: advocate
I don't know what it's going to take to change these people's minds. I mean geez they are already making awesome filters. The ultra can't be beat!. Efficiency numbers don't seem to mean anything to these morons blindly Fram bashing... These numbnuts are just so [censored] bent hating Fram. Chances are they have never used a Fram filter or been burned by one before.
Is that you Frampa?
I don't know what it's going to take to change these people's minds. I mean geez they are already making awesome filters. The ultra can't be beat!. Efficiency numbers don't seem to mean anything to these morons blindly Fram bashing... These numbnuts are just so [censored] bent hating Fram. Chances are they have never used a Fram filter or been burned by one before.
Is that you Frampa?
I buy US or EU made filters whenever I can. If that option isn't available, I just use OEM. I also pick stuff based on price and convenience and could really care less about brand.
Fram just happens to fit the bill for most of my applications.
Fram just happens to fit the bill for most of my applications.
Originally Posted By: jim302
The FRAM bashing is for one simple reason: Visually, their construction quality does not look as appealing when they are cut open (except for the Ultra). The fact that FRAM's filtration efficiency outperforms nearly every competitive filter doesn't seem to matter to some people. Neither does years of success - such as cars making 200,000 miles or more on a basic FRAM orange can without any engine problems.
I seem to recall seeing pictures of cut open FRAM filters from the 80's, and they were built the same way back then. A lot of forum posts claim the construction change was much more recent as some sort of evil plot to destroy all of our engines. The fact is, this design has proven to work over decades of real-world use.
FRAM also makes oil filters for Honda, who wouldn't risk their reputation for building reliable engines if they felt anything was wrong with the filter's design or construction. I think they also make filters for Subaru.
The real odd thing about the FRAM bashing: 99% of it is about the end caps; yet these same people don't bash filter designs that have no end caps at all.
I will admit that I temporarily stopped buying FRAM filters based on what I saw on the Internet, but after looking back I realized this was silly. The product works perfectly fine for its intended purpose. Sometimes you can find a good filter that is a bit cheaper, but at the same time the pricing for FRAM is still competitive in most cases. There's no pattern of end caps separating, media tearing, or any other problem that would be a cause for concern.
Good post!
The FRAM bashing is for one simple reason: Visually, their construction quality does not look as appealing when they are cut open (except for the Ultra). The fact that FRAM's filtration efficiency outperforms nearly every competitive filter doesn't seem to matter to some people. Neither does years of success - such as cars making 200,000 miles or more on a basic FRAM orange can without any engine problems.
I seem to recall seeing pictures of cut open FRAM filters from the 80's, and they were built the same way back then. A lot of forum posts claim the construction change was much more recent as some sort of evil plot to destroy all of our engines. The fact is, this design has proven to work over decades of real-world use.
FRAM also makes oil filters for Honda, who wouldn't risk their reputation for building reliable engines if they felt anything was wrong with the filter's design or construction. I think they also make filters for Subaru.
The real odd thing about the FRAM bashing: 99% of it is about the end caps; yet these same people don't bash filter designs that have no end caps at all.
I will admit that I temporarily stopped buying FRAM filters based on what I saw on the Internet, but after looking back I realized this was silly. The product works perfectly fine for its intended purpose. Sometimes you can find a good filter that is a bit cheaper, but at the same time the pricing for FRAM is still competitive in most cases. There's no pattern of end caps separating, media tearing, or any other problem that would be a cause for concern.
Good post!
I quit using the Fram orange can years ago because I always had valvetrain noise in my cars back in the mid 80s/90s. Plus the usual cutaway showing how it was put together was a deterrent. But after spending time on here, I started using the Fram Ultra last year. Probably the only other filter besides the Ultra I'll use now would be the Wix XP/NAPA Platinum.
L8R,
Matt
L8R,
Matt
Originally Posted By: 5AcresAndAFool
American manufacturing is very important to me, one thing I have read on another forum sometime was the fact that "frams used to be a good filter, but they quietly moved production to mexico and the quality went downhill."
Now whether you love or hate fram I believe that statement was False, but I was not a member on that forum and didn't want to join just to correct that false statement, or at least I believe it was false.
Where are Fram Filters made? I thought it was Ohio? Can anyone explain what Plants make what fram filters?
SNIP
Fram filters used to be made in Nevada Missouri about 35 miles from where I live. The closed the plant and moved to Mexico, I know people that lost their jobs, not well but this is a rural area, and the family names mean a lot.
I noticed Fram air filters did not get dirty nearly as fast as ACon the gravel roads around here. AC became my preferred brand. For a long time I was a Fram hater. I also had one leak out the seam and make a big mess. Now I use the Ultra, but I still use AC Air filters.
Rod
American manufacturing is very important to me, one thing I have read on another forum sometime was the fact that "frams used to be a good filter, but they quietly moved production to mexico and the quality went downhill."
Now whether you love or hate fram I believe that statement was False, but I was not a member on that forum and didn't want to join just to correct that false statement, or at least I believe it was false.
Where are Fram Filters made? I thought it was Ohio? Can anyone explain what Plants make what fram filters?
SNIP
Fram filters used to be made in Nevada Missouri about 35 miles from where I live. The closed the plant and moved to Mexico, I know people that lost their jobs, not well but this is a rural area, and the family names mean a lot.
I noticed Fram air filters did not get dirty nearly as fast as ACon the gravel roads around here. AC became my preferred brand. For a long time I was a Fram hater. I also had one leak out the seam and make a big mess. Now I use the Ultra, but I still use AC Air filters.
Rod
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Most of the Fram bashing here involved the fiber end caps.
Back in the day before CR became the bible of upper middle class consumption, they'd actually test things like engine oil and oil filters.
They did a test of oil filters back in the mid eighties and the Fram orange can looked really good against a host of OEM filters.
That was good enough for me and I ran the OCD for years thereafter.
There isn't and never was anything wrong with Fram oil filters.
Can't say the same about certain other aftermarket oil filters.
OTOH, we spend a lot of time worrying about a piece that does pretty much nothing after engine break-in.
Back in the day before CR became the bible of upper middle class consumption, they'd actually test things like engine oil and oil filters.
They did a test of oil filters back in the mid eighties and the Fram orange can looked really good against a host of OEM filters.
That was good enough for me and I ran the OCD for years thereafter.
There isn't and never was anything wrong with Fram oil filters.
Can't say the same about certain other aftermarket oil filters.
OTOH, we spend a lot of time worrying about a piece that does pretty much nothing after engine break-in.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Most of the Fram bashing here involved the fiber end caps.
Back in the day before CR became the bible of upper middle class consumption, they'd actually test things like engine oil and oil filters.
They did a test of oil filters back in the mid eighties and the Fram orange can looked really good against a host of OEM filters.
That was good enough for me and I ran the OCD for years thereafter.
There isn't and never was anything wrong with Fram oil filters.
Can't say the same about certain other aftermarket oil filters.
OTOH, we spend a lot of time worrying about a piece that does pretty much nothing after engine break-in.
I remember that CR report and the fram orange was the top filter.That was long before the ultras and TG's.
Most of the Fram bashing here involved the fiber end caps.
Back in the day before CR became the bible of upper middle class consumption, they'd actually test things like engine oil and oil filters.
They did a test of oil filters back in the mid eighties and the Fram orange can looked really good against a host of OEM filters.
That was good enough for me and I ran the OCD for years thereafter.
There isn't and never was anything wrong with Fram oil filters.
Can't say the same about certain other aftermarket oil filters.
OTOH, we spend a lot of time worrying about a piece that does pretty much nothing after engine break-in.
I remember that CR report and the fram orange was the top filter.That was long before the ultras and TG's.
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Originally Posted By: Skid
I don't like aggressive marketing. Fram and Castrol are the worst offenders.
mobil 1 has to be right there as well.
I don't like aggressive marketing. Fram and Castrol are the worst offenders.
mobil 1 has to be right there as well.
Originally Posted By: advocate
I see all the time people hating on fram. I used to a while back (for no reason) until I bettered myself by doing research mainly on this page. But constantly you will see someone post a 15 year old video on Facebook with some loser comparing a high end filter to a Fram extra guard (orange can of delight). And nothing you tell these people will change their mind it seems. They have no evidence of anything. But they would rather kill off a family member then use a Fram filter...
We're both in Canada, so you'll understand my reasoning - pricing. It's not Fram's fault per se. Lots of Canadian retailers carry Frams. Lots of Canadian retailers overcharge. So, being overcharged for a Fram is pretty likely up here.
I can't fathom paying $8 for an orange can when I can get a Hastings for $5. By the way, Acklands-Grainger is bringing in Casite filters next month, starting on special at $1.63. Now, why should I go to Walmart Canada, Canadian Tire, or Partsource for an orange can? Ultra, no problem. But, an $8 orange can isn't justifiable beside a $1.63 Casite or a $5 Baldwin.
I see all the time people hating on fram. I used to a while back (for no reason) until I bettered myself by doing research mainly on this page. But constantly you will see someone post a 15 year old video on Facebook with some loser comparing a high end filter to a Fram extra guard (orange can of delight). And nothing you tell these people will change their mind it seems. They have no evidence of anything. But they would rather kill off a family member then use a Fram filter...
We're both in Canada, so you'll understand my reasoning - pricing. It's not Fram's fault per se. Lots of Canadian retailers carry Frams. Lots of Canadian retailers overcharge. So, being overcharged for a Fram is pretty likely up here.
I can't fathom paying $8 for an orange can when I can get a Hastings for $5. By the way, Acklands-Grainger is bringing in Casite filters next month, starting on special at $1.63. Now, why should I go to Walmart Canada, Canadian Tire, or Partsource for an orange can? Ultra, no problem. But, an $8 orange can isn't justifiable beside a $1.63 Casite or a $5 Baldwin.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
I don't understand the bashing either, people bash without knowing any facts. People stick to their brands and won't sway in one direction or another.
I'm clearly not one to be stuck to one brand or another, look at my signature below.
Hyundai, Toyota, and a Jeep. Pennzoil, Mobil 1, and Napa oil. OEM, Wix, and Fram Ultra for filters.
Doesn't get much more spread out than that
I'm clearly not one to be stuck to one brand or another, look at my signature below.
Hyundai, Toyota, and a Jeep. Pennzoil, Mobil 1, and Napa oil. OEM, Wix, and Fram Ultra for filters.
Doesn't get much more spread out than that
I believe the orange Frams to be overpriced for what you get but have used them in the past without problems. Anymore, I tend to stick with OEM filters for everything just to be on the safe side. I know I'm more likely to get reimbursement from the OEM if something were to go wrong than I would from Fram or Wix.
Although, I'm thinking hard about switching filters on my 7.3 and might go with a Fram on it (due to the Puro tearing issues, although I'm not sure the FL-1995 is a problem child or not as I've never seen a 7.3 filter cut open here) and I like the way they are designed, wide open louvers, and the cutaway shows it appears to have metal end caps too.
For whatever it's worth, Cummins released a TSB a few years back warning people not to use Frams on their engines, but, I'm not sure that's still relevant or not.
Although, I'm thinking hard about switching filters on my 7.3 and might go with a Fram on it (due to the Puro tearing issues, although I'm not sure the FL-1995 is a problem child or not as I've never seen a 7.3 filter cut open here) and I like the way they are designed, wide open louvers, and the cutaway shows it appears to have metal end caps too.
For whatever it's worth, Cummins released a TSB a few years back warning people not to use Frams on their engines, but, I'm not sure that's still relevant or not.
1 reasoni don't fram? Go to any store open a box with a gram filter .you won't see the screw end sealed .now go check a drivework .screw end is sealed. That's reason one
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