Has anyone seen analysis of Synpower?
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Patman
Staff member
I posted one here earlier on their 5w30. I found it on the f-body mailing list. It had thinned out to a 5w20 in 4000 miles.
VeeDub, if you go to the www.oilanalysis.com forums, there's a post from early january regarding Synpower 5W-40 vs Mobil1 5-30 in a VW. It should be easy to find since posts on that site have slowed considerably.
I recognize your name from a lot of the oil discussions from Clubb5. I don't post on Clubb5, but I'm DaisyCutter on the VWVortex site. I hope your not shying away from the Mobil1 0W-40 based on some of the crap that's said on that board.
Some people are currently testing that stuff out and dbrowne1's 5W-30 analysis looked fine in a chipped 1.8T, so I wouldn't worry about your warranty using any Mobil1 product. If you run Synpower, get it analayzed so all the 1.8T users here can compare numbers. I'm going to be running Lubro-Moly 5W-40 shortly, so we can add that to the list.
I recognize your name from a lot of the oil discussions from Clubb5. I don't post on Clubb5, but I'm DaisyCutter on the VWVortex site. I hope your not shying away from the Mobil1 0W-40 based on some of the crap that's said on that board.
Thanks Steve. I may try out the Synpower in the VW in my next oil change so that VW never has an excuse to void my warranty. I figured even if it's not as good as Mobil 0w-40 which is likely, it's not going to harm my engine for one oil change. I'll get it analyzed and see how it does.quote:
Originally posted by Steve_RI:
VeeDub, if you go to the www.oilanalysis.com forums, there's a post from early january regarding Synpower 5W-40 vs Mobil1 5-30 in a VW. It should be easy to find since posts on that site have slowed considerably.
I recognize your name from a lot of the oil discussions from Clubb5. I don't post on Clubb5, but I'm DaisyCutter on the VWVortex site. I hope your not shying away from the Mobil1 0W-40 based on some of the crap that's said on that board.Some people are currently testing that stuff out and dbrowne1's 5W-30 analysis looked fine in a chipped 1.8T, so I wouldn't worry about your warranty using any Mobil1 product. If you run Synpower, get it analayzed so all the 1.8T users here can compare numbers. I'm going to be running Lubro-Moly 5W-40 shortly, so we can add that to the list.
Patman
Staff member
I am not sure if I posted that 5w30 Synpower analysis here or not now that I think about it,
so here it is:
> > Well, I finally got my oil report back from Blackstone labs. Now I can
>give a
> > fair, impartial comparison between Mobil 1 and Valvoline Synpower. Both
>were
> > 5w30. The Mobil 1 was in for 2320 miles; the Synpower for 3937. Below
>are the
> > results in parts-per-million:
> >
> > aluminum 3/3 (Mobil1/Synpower)
> > chromium 1/1
> > iron 7/11
> > copper 28/45
> > lead 2/3
> > tin 1/3
> > molybdenum 1/1
> > TOTAL: 43/67
> > PER MILE: 0.0185/0.0170
> >
> > that's all the little bits of my engine that got into the oil: block,
>rings,
> > bearings, etc. As far as detergents go:
> >
> > boron 58/14
> > calcium 790/3110
> > magnesium 1400/276
> > TOTAL: 2248/3400
> >
> > and anti-wear additives:
> >
> > phosphorus 616/776
> > zinc 716/1011
> > TOTAL: 1332/1787
> >
> > A few other numbers:
> >
> > Flashpoint 380/385 degF
> > Viscosity @ 210deg 57.1/56.4
> >
so here it is:
> > Well, I finally got my oil report back from Blackstone labs. Now I can
>give a
> > fair, impartial comparison between Mobil 1 and Valvoline Synpower. Both
>were
> > 5w30. The Mobil 1 was in for 2320 miles; the Synpower for 3937. Below
>are the
> > results in parts-per-million:
> >
> > aluminum 3/3 (Mobil1/Synpower)
> > chromium 1/1
> > iron 7/11
> > copper 28/45
> > lead 2/3
> > tin 1/3
> > molybdenum 1/1
> > TOTAL: 43/67
> > PER MILE: 0.0185/0.0170
> >
> > that's all the little bits of my engine that got into the oil: block,
>rings,
> > bearings, etc. As far as detergents go:
> >
> > boron 58/14
> > calcium 790/3110
> > magnesium 1400/276
> > TOTAL: 2248/3400
> >
> > and anti-wear additives:
> >
> > phosphorus 616/776
> > zinc 716/1011
> > TOTAL: 1332/1787
> >
> > A few other numbers:
> >
> > Flashpoint 380/385 degF
> > Viscosity @ 210deg 57.1/56.4
> >
Patman,
I think I saw that analysis elsewhere. I recall it being 2 or 3 years old.
If that is the case, then both formulations have changed considerably. Tri to SS on M1 and PAO to Group III on the Synpower.
Cheers,
JJ
I think I saw that analysis elsewhere. I recall it being 2 or 3 years old.
If that is the case, then both formulations have changed considerably. Tri to SS on M1 and PAO to Group III on the Synpower.
Cheers,
JJ
I'm running 10w30 Synpower in a Camry now and will analyze in a month or two.
Patman
Staff member
Actually that analysis was posted on the 4th gen mailing list on May 1st, so it's not that old. Although I'm sure it is for the last formulations of Mobil 1 anyways, since SuperSyn was not out at the time of his original test. The Valvoline could possibly be SL though.
[ August 25, 2002, 07:16 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]
Patman
Staff member
The one problem I have with those results is that it's really missing a lot of data! As usual,
Blackstone leaves out TBN, nitration and oxidation. Plus a lot of wear metals are missing.
One thing that really stands out is that both of these oils have thinned out a lot, they are
pretty much 5w20s now. Just another reason why I don't like 5w30 in a hard driven car.
The copper levels are high, but since this is most likely an LS1 f-body oil analysis, that makes
sense since they always seem to show high copper numbers.
Blackstone leaves out TBN, nitration and oxidation. Plus a lot of wear metals are missing.
One thing that really stands out is that both of these oils have thinned out a lot, they are
pretty much 5w20s now. Just another reason why I don't like 5w30 in a hard driven car.
The copper levels are high, but since this is most likely an LS1 f-body oil analysis, that makes
sense since they always seem to show high copper numbers.
I just read this thread from oilanalysis.com Seems like Mobil 1 may not be the cat's *** afterall...
http://www.oilanalysis.com/message_...+vs.+Valvoline+5w-40+results&messagenumber=1
http://www.oilanalysis.com/message_...+vs.+Valvoline+5w-40+results&messagenumber=1
Remember for a good analysis for side-by-side comparisons it must be apples to apples, not apples to oranges.
But he should have compared Mobil 1 0W40 to keep it apples and apples...
Direct baseline comparisons between Mobil 1 Tri and SS and Valvoline SynPower are available on my analysis spreadsheet. Just e-mail me if you need a link.
Empirically, SynPower should do well, although the TBN is a lower initial value.
[ September 11, 2002, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: bill99gxe ]
I don't necessarily agree with this, especially for "newbie" oil analysis people. Blackstone is the best comprehensive and personal effort analysis I have come across (yes, I'm taking the one available here into consideration). Oil Analyzers is one of the most comprehensive for raw numbers (TBN, Oxidation, Nitration, full elements), as you can get analysis kits with mail in containers for as low as $14.......Their comments category, though, is laughable. You would need a lot of experience from members here to help you interpret the results. Otherwise, Oil Analyzer's results can be confusing. Then, there's always the Amsoil conflict of interest conspiracy theories.....
I don't recall any wear metals Blackstone leaves out. Can you elaborate on that?
TBN an extra $10 is a rip-off on an $18.50 analysis from Blackstone; that's pretty inexcuseable. Oxidation and Nitration certainly matter, but I'm just as concerned about Insolubles, which is only reported on by Blackstone in terms of the analysis companies I've run across. It can assist in determining a filters effectiveness as well.
As usual, there's pros and cons to all of them.....
Patman
Staff member
Perhaps on this analysis above the guy just chose to leave out the other wear metals, but in this Blackstone report he only showed the following metals:
aluminum
chromium
iron
copper
lead
tin
Although I have seen other Blackstone results that showed more, so he probably did just leave out a lot of stuff on what he posted to the list.
aluminum
chromium
iron
copper
lead
tin
Although I have seen other Blackstone results that showed more, so he probably did just leave out a lot of stuff on what he posted to the list.
Bottom line is that any comparison needs to be apples to apples. Who knows what how Mobil 1 10w40 would have done?
I have been an avid Mobil1 user since '96. I have never seen a 10w40 Mobil1 oil. I am the type to go to all kinds of stores looking at what they have and finding the best deal. All I've seen was the green, blue, and red cap'ed Mobil1. I'm not saying that they never made it, but it definately was not as easily available as the others.
True, to have any conclusions that Synpower is better than Mobil1, you would need an apples to apples comparison, but as he said:
"From the results I've received, I have determined that in my VR6, Valvoline 5w-40 yields superior performance with lower wear metals and greater durability than Mobil 1 5w-30."
This is true and if I were he, I would not look any further either as that Synpower analysis shows excellent results.
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