Harley Xl1200 Primary/Trans UOA Red Line 75w-90

[shanneba]

Here is my latest HD XL1200C primary/transmission UOA (on the right) 10,000 miles on Red Line 75w-90 Running Red Line 75w-90 again for another 10,000 miles. Blackstone comments: This is the most metal we've found from your transmission to-date. Aluminum and iron are both much higher than last time, suggesting a problem is developing. Copper improved a bit, but it's still high enough to show poor wear at brass/bronze parts. Silicon may be some sort of additive, but check to make sure there's no place for dirt to get into the system and cause extra wear. Insolubles were high, suggesting this oil was exposed to excess heat/use, so perhaps excess heat can account for the extra metal. Check back in 5,000 miles and proceed with caution.

Code

+----------------+-----------+-----------+----------+
| Miles on oil   | 10000     | 10000     | 10000    |
| Total miles    | 15000     | 25000     | 35000    |
| Date           | 03/26/16  | 08/16/17  | 10/30/18 |
| Make up oil    | 0         | 0         |          |
| Oil Brand      | Red Line  | Red Line  | Red Line |
| Weight         | MT-90     | 75w-110   | 75w-90   |
|                |           |           |          |
|                |           |           |          |
| ALUMINUM       | 82        | 81        | 124      |
| CHROMIUM       | 0         | 0         | 0        |
| IRON           | 58        | 74        | 101      |
| COPPER         | 21        | 56        | 42       |
| LEAD           | 2         | 1         | 1        |
| TIN            | 0         | 0         | 1        |
| MOLYBDENUM     | 16        | 6         | 7        |
| NICKEL         | 1         | 1         | 1        |
| MANGANESE      | 1         | 1         | 1        |
| SILVER         | 0         | 0         | 0        |
| TITANIUM       | 0         | 0         | 0        |
| POTASSIUM      | 2         | 3         | 3        |
| BORON          | 137       | 131       | 164      |
| SILICON        | 49        | 77        | 76       |
| SODIUM         | 5         | 8         | 7        |
| CALCIUM        | 2933      | 408       | 119      |
| MAGNESIUM      | 109       | 23        | 7        |
| PHOSPHORUS     | 1957      | 2930      | 3029     |
| ZINC           | 2199      | 392       | 162      |
| BARIUM         | 0         | 1         | 1        |
|                |           |           |          |
| SUS @ 210F     | 77.2      | 92.7      | 78.9     |
| cSt @ 100C     | 14.83     | 18.63     | 15.25    |
| Flashpoint F   | 440       | 435       | 410      |
| Fuel         % |           |           |          |
| Antifreeze %   |           |           |          |
| Water       %  | 0         | 0         | 0        |
| Insolubles %   | TR        | 0.4       | 0.8      |
+----------------+-----------+-----------+----------+

 

[Boomer]

Whatever is going on, I think you are using the wrong lubricant! Go back to the original at least.

 

[Linctex]

The Sportster primary runs a wet clutch...... and no oil filter anywhere. There will ALWAYS be tons of metal and debris in a system like that.

 

[BrocLuno]

Yup, and no where to really put a magnet ... No drain plug per se ...

 

[alarmguy]

Im confused :o) ... What year is the bike? and ... What is the purpose of running a gear lube in the trans/primary when plain old oil is specified by the manufacturer? Am I missing a reason for this? As far as the wear numbers, not exactly blowing the doors off with outstanding numbers, then again, nothing to compare with anyway or is there?

 

[shanneba]

Originally Posted by alarmguy

Im confused :o) ... What year is the bike? and ... What is the purpose of running a gear lube in the trans/primary when plain old oil is specified by the manufacturer? Am I missing a reason for this? As far as the wear numbers, not exactly blowing the doors off with outstanding numbers, then again, nothing to compare with anyway or is there?

My signature shows the bike as a 2013 Harley Formula+ is a gear oil. (not to be used in the engine is written on the bottle) HD gives no specifications as to what it is. Formula+ is blended to provide lubricity for the anti-wear requirements of transmission gears. Primary/Transmission: '71-later XL and '83-'84 XR1000 models. Every 10,000 miles, or prior to winter or extended storage periods Formulated to maintain the coefficient of friction for proper clutch operation and provide adequate lubrication to the primary chain Approved for use in all stages of transmission and primary chaincase life Not for use in the crankcase as a motor oil Not many primary/Trans UOAs from HD Sportsters. Not sure what years Blackstone includes in the averages, could include older Sportsters with the trap door. I also have the HD Screamin Eagle kevlar clutch kit with the 10% heavier clutch spring and without the "spring plate" Here is what Blackstone shows for universal averages based on 5700 miles, I calculated 10,000 miles by multiplying 5700 X 1.75 = 9975.

Code

+--------------+--------------+------------+
| Universal    | times 1.75   |            |
| ~ 5700 miles | ~10000 miles |            |
| 9            | 16           | ALUMINUM   |
| 0            | 0            | CHROMIUM   |
| 47           | 82           | IRON       |
| 6            | 11           | COPPER     |
| 1            | 2            | LEAD       |
| 1            | 2            | TIN        |
| 0            | 0            | NICKEL     |
| 1            | 2            | MANGANESE  |
| 0            | 0            | SILVER     |
| 0            | 0            | TITANIUM   |
| 5            | 9            | POTASSIUM  |
+--------------+--------------+------------+

 

[alarmguy]

I could be wrong on this as I never looked into it much but I do use the Formula + in my transmission and primary. But according to some posts in these forums and a voa others have commented that it's a simple gl1 mineral oil with specs up to gl-3 oil. Since HD also allows 20/50 HD syn motor oil to be used in the transmission and primary I can only assume your manual calls for the same thing. Many people will use Mobil 1 20/50 motor oil in the transmission and primary instead of HD syn motor.oil or in your case the 20/50 Redline if there isn't a ton of moly in it. I never saw any of them using gear lube in the primary, some do use gear lube in the transmission which I don't agree with or HD would too. Again I really don't know much about the Sportsters and again I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong I just haven't seen or heard of anybody using it with a primary. I do know for a fact some gl4 and gl5 gear lubes can be corrosive to soft metals although nowadays that has been reduced by most and I have no idea if any soft metals are in a HD transmission or primary except HD doesn't use it. Oops I now see the 2013. :o)

 

[shanneba]

I've seen the Forumula+ VOAs indicating it is a GL1 that tests as a GL3. That is why I ran the 75w-110 diff lube, as it is close to the viscosity of the Formula+ (Diamond Chain also suggests a 50 weight oil in an application like the Harley primary) My owners manual and service manual only mention Formula+ in the trans/primary. I know HD says the SYN3 can be used in the Sportster trans/primary. I did run that at my 1000 mile service. No UOA of the factory fill or that run of SYN3. The Red Line Power Sports 20w-50 does have ~425 ppm of "moly" but it is also JASO MA rated. "Blended with specific friction modifiers that are compatible with wet-clutches, suitable for JASO MA applications" I may run that in my next trans/primary UOA. I haven't seen information from Mobil that the V-Twin 20w-50 is JASO MA rated, I believe the 4T 10w-40 Mobil 1 is. Both say "optimized" for wet clutch performance I believe the M1 V-Twin 20w-50 has about 90 ppm of moly. All the Red Line GL5 gear lubes are tested as 1A in the ASTM D-130 "Detection of Copper Corrosion from Petroleum Products by the Copper Strip Tarnish Test" The Sportster Primary does have the stator for the charging system that has copper. Eventually I'll do a UOA using Formula+, but I expect similar results

 

[alarmguy]

Yup, sounds like you have all your bases covered and well-thought-out. I'm impressed that you know the Redline is 1a.

 

[shanneba]

I figured Red Line would suggest MT-90 for the Sportster primary/transmission. Their first suggestion is the 75w-90, but they will also say the MT-90 or the 75w-90NS will also work. I tried the 75w-110 when it came out since it had a viscosity very close to the Formula+. Amsoil has a gear oil test where they show Red Line 75w-90 tested as 1b, Red Line says their 75w-90 tests as 1a. I have just been adding the full quart the owner's manual and service manual call for on these changes. This time I got the bike close to level and had to add about another 4 ounces to get the oil level to the bottom of the clutch spring. Maybe my wear will be little less this time. I will see in about 10,000 miles.