Gun carry insurance

[bunnspecial]

Do I have it? No-but it doesn't inherently sound like a bad idea.

Fundamentally, all insurance seems like a waste of money until you need it. How many have filed a big claim on your home or auto insurance? You throw a lot of money at it, but it also saves your day if you have a total loss.

Someone on here who CLAIMS to be an LEO(and also seems to post a lot against non-LEO carry...) also CLAIMS that training will protect you if you're in a "clean" shoot-but also probably has a lot of insurance backed by their LEO agency. How many "clean" LEO shoots still get drug through the courts?

The chances of a private individual who carries being involved a shooting are very, very slim, but the result can be life changing in more ways than one. Aside from the emotions a straight, above board, unquestionably clean shoot, it can still ruin you financially if a sympathetic jury decides it was a "wrongful death." So, forgive me for not putting a lot of weight on what a claimed LEO who has their departments backing says on this.

 

[Al]

I have spent $4000+ in the last 5 years on training, mostly at Harrisburg Area Community College Law Enforcement Center that trains Police and police trainers. The biggest thing to learn is that the overwhelming number of "incidents" can be avoided by running away or taking cover. The chances of "drawing" your firearm to confront outside the home before you can seek cover or run is extremely remote. And for the untrained its a fools errand.

I have a two million umbrella policy. It will cover me as long as I act responsibility. The training is important bc it supports your case. In any event it seems that the umbrella policy is the way to go. Spend the $$ for concealed carry insurance for training.

 

[Toros]

Originally Posted by Al
I have spent $4000+ in the last 5 years on training, mostly at Harrisburg Area Community College Law Enforcement Center that trains Police and police trainers. The biggest thing to learn is that the overwhelming number of "incidents" can be avoided by running away or taking cover. The chances of "drawing" your firearm to confront outside the home before you can seek cover or run is extremely remote. And for the untrained its a fools errand.

I have a two million umbrella policy. It will cover me as long as I act responsibility. The training is important bc it supports your case. In any event it seems that the umbrella policy is the way to go. Spend the $$ for concealed carry insurance for training.


Agreed.

 

[billt460]

I just read through this. I've been carrying here in Arizona since they first adapted concealed carry. Which was sometime in the mid 90's. They have since allowed concealed carry without a permit since 2009. I just got my permit renewed last week.... (Until 2026). (There are still many advantages to having one). I carry all the time. But I have to admit, I'm getting more and more nervous about it with each passing year. Not because of the increase in crime. But the increase of expensive legal activity if you are ever forced to use a firearm in self defense.

This legal fear is now bleeding down to police officers in the field, in the way they respond. We have seen officers today being pushed and shoved, spat on, and even had water, drinks, and other fluids thrown on them, all without taking ANY defensive action. All for fear of dismissal or legal action taken against them. Today we hear the question asked, "Who the hell would want to be a cop today!" It's a tough one to answer. Sadly this is what our society has descended into in many locations. Add citizen concealed carry into this type of environment, and it has become far more risky to the individual who carries a weapon.

Some years back on Tom Gresham's syndicated radio show, "Gun Talk", he said that when all is said and done, if you are involved in a, "clean shoot", (legally just in discharging your weapon in self defense), you could expect to shell out in the neighborhood of $25K in attorney fees before it all went away. I have no way of knowing if that's true or not. But as I said, that was several years ago. Our legal system has been off the rails for years regarding frivolous law suits. I would be willing to bet that figure is much higher today. As is the risk of being charged with a crime, as Astro pointed out.

Unfortunately the legal climate is constantly changing against gun owners. In some states it is much worse than others. But make no mistake, even if you are legally just in dropping the hammer, you could be facing financial ruin by doing it. Perhaps even prison.... Regardless of how "right" you are or were. That of course isn't how it should be, but unfortunately, that's the way it is. Today the perp has become the victim.

I think the hidden danger in all of this, is if a responsible individual who is carrying, is put into a dangerous self defense situation, fear of what might legally and / or financially happen to them, might just cause a fatal delay in their response. And that defeats the entire purpose of what concealed carry is all about.

 

[skyactiv]

inlivenin a free state, no thanks

Wife and I got our CCW in 2014. The class did push us to buy coverage. We don’t have any. The instructor went on about a self defense shooting that happened at a Texas gas station by the CCW holder getting shot at but returned fire, killing the perp, but was charged by a overzealous prosecutor.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The instructor went on about a self defense shooting that happened at a Texas gas station by the CCW holder getting shot at but returned fire, killing the perp, but was charged by a overzealous prosecutor.

I don't see how those charges could stick in a case like that. How much closer to death do prosecutors expect someone to get before protecting themselves? That's crazy.

 

[Doc8404]

Armed citizen defense league. The only one in NY from what I understand

 

[billt460]

I don't see how those charges could stick in a case like that. How much closer to death do prosecutors expect someone to get before protecting themselves? That's crazy.

The charges don't necessarily have to "stick" to destroy your life. Even if you win, it can reek havoc on you financially. That can be especially devastating if you're retired on a fixed income. At my age, I only want to see the inside of a Home Depot as a customer.... Not an employee.

 

[nomas]

Even if it's a " good shoot " there is still a possibility that you could be arrested . You will have to post Bond . You WILL need to shut up and let an Attorney do all the talking . Even if your 2A friendly DA declines to press charges you are still out a bunch of money . Either way it comes out you stand a very good chance of being sued in Civil Court because we all know " he was a good boy " ...etc.
Using your weapon to defend yourself should always be a last resort . And it will be a lifechanging event . Emotionally and financially .

 

[MRC01]

This was also discussed here, with some tips about insurance: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/ccw-insurance.343891

 

[wdn]

15 seconds on Google, and in roll the results, here is "https://www.seacoastonline.com/article/20100523/NEWS/100529928"

That situation in New Hampshire with the vigilante shooter Gregory Floyd, was followed up by Floyd being tried and convicted in another incident of threatening to shoot a woman, after Floyd ordered her to back her truck up a hill on a narrow, one way road. Gregory Floyd was found guilty and incarcerated. When the guilty verdict was read in the courtroom, Floyd also threatened court officers at his trial.

 

[Astro14]

That situation in New Hampshire with the vigilante shooter Gregory Floyd, was followed up by Floyd being tried and convicted in another incident of threatening to shoot a woman, after Floyd ordered her to back her truck up a hill on a narrow, one way road. Gregory Floyd was found guilty and incarcerated. When the guilty verdict was read in the courtroom, Floyd also threatened court officers at his trial.

Fair enough.

Are you saying that 15 seconds on Google does NOT show results of people being sued for wrongful death?

My point: wrongful death suits are common, even if you think you've acted in self defense, so having insurance makes sense.

 

[wdn]

Searching for quick internet memes where there is a clear cut good guy or a bad guy does not pan out. That one you found was a clear example of a hothead who should not be carrying a handgun in the first place, and will not be any longer, now that he is a convicted felon.

A prosecutor can raise the topic of your having shooting insurance in a criminal or civil case, just like he can raise the fact you had just raised your fire insurance coverage during an arson case. The difference is accidental fires really do happen but accidental shootings do not. The trigger does not pull itself.

 

[skyactiv]

I don't see how those charges could stick in a case like that. How much closer to death do prosecutors expect someone to get before protecting themselves? That's crazy.

The instructor also said you’d be in big trouble in NJ if you shoot someone with hollow points.

 

[skyactiv]

He also said if you were legally flying to NJ to a pistol challenge and your flight got diverted to NY. NY has been known to charge people despite the Federal law allowing gun transport.

 

[Doc8404]

He also said if you were legally flying to NJ to a pistol challenge and your flight got diverted to NY. NY has been known to charge people despite the Federal law allowing gun transport.

Yes. But many of these programs won’t do anything unless you use the firearm.

 

[Astro14]

Searching for quick internet memes where there is a clear cut good guy or a bad guy does not pan out. That one you found was a clear example of a hothead who should not be carrying a handgun in the first place, and will not be any longer, now that he is a convicted felon.

A prosecutor can raise the topic of your having shooting insurance in a criminal or civil case, just like he can raise the fact you had just raised your fire insurance coverage during an arson case. The difference is accidental fires really do happen but accidental shootings do not. The trigger does not pull itself.

I agree - it was a poor example.

However, despite the potential for a prosecutor to make an issue of it, I still think the insurance is a good idea.

Unscrupulous prosecutors have made an issue, even won convictions, of people using handloads, or using hollowpoints, and other reasonable acts that the prosecutor was able to characterize as irresponsible, or pre-meditated.

Remember that the prosecutor doesn't care about you, or wrong or right, they care only how their record looks in gaining convictions. They will bring a case if they think they can win. It's never about wrong or right.

 

[nomas]

I have USCCA , and it makes me feel better . It's good in other states and that's important . Just because your own DA is gun friendly means nothing if you are far from home and something bad goes down .

 

[MRC01]

He also said if you were legally flying to NJ to a pistol challenge and your flight got diverted to NY. NY has been known to charge people despite the Federal law allowing gun transport.

Yes, airports in NYC (LGA and JFK) were doing this, in violation of 18 USC 926A, federal law that trumps state & local laws. From what I read in the news, they were charging people anyway as they carried their declared and lawfully owned and transported firearms through the airport. If you showed up in court and affirmed 18 USC 926A in your defense, they dismissed your case. If this is true, in my opinion it's an example of prosecutorial misconduct.

 

[MRC01]

...
Unscrupulous prosecutors have made an issue, even won convictions, of people using handloads, or using hollowpoints, and other reasonable acts that the prosecutor was able to characterize as irresponsible, or pre-meditated.

Everyone who carries should take professional tactical training. One of the many things we learn in these classes is to carry only standard factory ammo, not your own reloads, etc. Hollow points are standard factory ammo carried by law enforcement everywhere, and they are actually safer because they stop the threat more effectively, which means you don't need to fire as many shots, reducing risk to others. If you carry them, you are conscientiously following the professional advice given in your training. Also, many schools (like, FAS among others) will show up in court and testify as expert witnesses in defense of any student who is involved in a lawful self-defense shooting.