GTI VR6 Oil

[OldBaldy]

Fair enough, but remember that we were discussing two very specific oils here - the "thick" GC 0w30 oil and the Redline 0W-40 oil.

Any discussion about other oils, or other viscosity range oils such as 0W-20 oils and general assumptions that 0W-20 oils are thinner than 0W-40 oils, etc, etc - are irrelevant to the topic at hand here.

The bottom line is that I suggest that Redline's 0W-40 with an advertised pour point of -60C/-76F would flow better than the GC 0w30 oil, with its pour point of -42C, down in the -30C real ambient winter temperature range that the OP was concerned about. You believe that GC is the better oil in these conditions, despite the significantly "worse" (higher) pour point level for these condistions.

Until we actually test the two oils side by side in a very cold freezer, it's a guessing game...but I will guess with some confidence based on the only numbers we have.....

BTW, the Redline 0w30 has an HT/HS of only 3.2, so it is ~ 10% below the minimum VW standard.

And now I'm also done with the topic.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
The reporting of "Pour Point" is subjective and unreliable. So are actual MRV and CCS numbers, where some companies, like Castrol, present the minimum to meet spec as their published numbers. If Pour Point was the correct test, there would have been no need to develop CCS and MRV.

 

[xGTIx]

I bought some gc on sale at walmart to try until winter and then I'm going to switch to redline before the temp goes below 0. I hope the advertised pour points are accurate. Last December we had a two week cold snap here in Edmonton where the temps were below -40 every day, the worst being a HIGH of -48C without windchill (not that windchill effects the oil, just to show how cold it gets here) and at least 15-20 days below -30 in an average winter.

 

[Audi Junkie]

The average 5w30 synth, like PP, is a good deal thinner in those temps.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
The average 5w30 synth, like PP, is a good deal thinner in those temps.


I agree. I'd have no qualms with using Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 in our winters, which are basically the same.

If one is really worried, one can use an oil pan heater. For some oddball reason, my Audi has two of the things.

 

[OldBaldy]

Originally Posted By: xGTIx
I bought some gc on sale at walmart to try until winter and then I'm going to switch to redline before the temp goes below 0. I hope the advertised pour points are accurate. Last December we had a two week cold snap here in Edmonton where the temps were below -40 every day, the worst being a HIGH of -48C without windchill (not that windchill effects the oil, just to show how cold it gets here) and at least 15-20 days below -30 in an average winter.


Good choice, IMO. You would be better off with the Red Line 0W-40 than Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 Euro which no longer flows below -39C, according to Pennzoil itself, in their ATSM D-97 test.

 

[Audi Junkie]

You could always place a sample of each in the cold....


Apparently, Redline lists the same PP for all it's 0w- and then 5w- oils, -60c and -45c respectively. For comparison, Pennzoil Platinum, a thin synthetic oil in any grade, the 0w-20 only claims a pour point of -48c, nearly the same as Red Line 20w-50? I seriously doubt that.

[URed Line]http://pdfcatch.net/ebook/redline+0w40+pdf/[/URed Line]

0W20 0W30 0W40 5W20 5W30 5W40 10W30 10W40 15W40 15W50 20W50
API Service Class: SM/SL/SG SM/SL/SG SM/SL/SG SM/SL/SG SM/SL/SG SM/SG/CF SM/SL/SG SM/SL/SG SM/SG/CF SM/SL/SG SM/SL/SG
CF CF CF CF CF CJ-4/CI-4 CF CF CJ-4/CI-4 CF CF
Viscosity Grade:
SAE 0W20 0W30 0W40 5W20 5W30 5W40 10W30 10W40 15W40 15W50 20W50
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 8.2 10.9 15.1 9.1 10.6 15.1 10.7 14.6 14.5 19.6 19.8
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 43 57 81 55 62 94 70 93 97 138 148
Viscosity Index 166 183 197 145 162 170 142 164 155 162 155
CCS Viscosity, Poise, @°C 55@-35 56@-35 57@-35 50@-30 60@-30 55@-30 65@-25 65@-25 65@-20 65@-20 50@-15
HTHS Vis, cP @150°C 2.7 3.2 4.0 3.3 3.8 4.6 3.8 4.7 4.7 5.8 6.1
ASTM D4741
Pour Point, °C -60 -60 -60 -45 -45 -45 -45 -45 -45 -45 -45
Pour Point, °F -76 -76 -76 -49 -49 -49 -49 -49 -49 -49 -49
Flash Point, °C 216 218 218 251 252 250 250 248 252 252 255
Flash Point, °F 421 424 424 484 486 480 480 478 486 486 491
NOACK Evaporation Loss,
1hr @ 482°F (250°C), % 9 9 9 8 6 6 6 6 6 6 6

Nor do they list the test method, interestingly.

If you want to believe Redline 20w-50 pours within 15 degrees C of Redline 0w-20, feel free, I do not. They are 100cSt apart at +40c.

I don't believe the Redline 0w-20 and 0w-40 are going to be identical as well.

 

[OldBaldy]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
You could always place a sample of each in the cold....


Yup, and this would be infinitely more useful than simply "doubting" Product Data Sheet numbers posted by manufacturers without any sort of test or evidence to disprove anything. I agree.

 

[Audi Junkie]

I call it common sense, something I inherited from BitOG. Sadly, it's becoming a forgotten skill here.

Things should always pass the "common sense" test, be it the cold viscosity number comparisons or the actual physical cold test in-situ.

 

[OldBaldy]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I call it common sense, something I inherited from BitOG. Sadly, it's becoming a forgotten skill here.



Again, I agree....there seems to be a distinct lack of it at times.

Now, as we're agreeing so much, I guess we're done here, until my little practical freezer experiment is done. I'll post up the results when done.

 

[Audi Junkie]

fwiw, the pour points on the Mobil 1 High Mileage line seems squirrely too...

The 10w-40 and 5w30 pour points are -39c and -42c respectively. If that doesn't seem weird, being so close, the 10w30 is much lower than either at -54c.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/P...alPropertyTitle

Cold performance is an area that is not well-documented, the freezer test is a better bet.


btw- I think you're doing great work on the forum...if my opinion counts.

 

[dparm]

Isn't the pour test a manual process with lots of room for error?

 

[Audi Junkie]

Yes, but why would the thicker 10w30 oil pour at a lower temp? A typo?

 

[OldBaldy]

I would guess that while there is usually a direct correlation between viscosity and pour points for the same type of base oil and additive package, if either of the base oil or package changes, then the oil can have an entirely different pourability rating.