GTI VR6 Oil

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Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
You should freezer test some oils, I think you'd be surprised how thick even a 10w30 or 5w-40 is in cold.


In my university days, when I had no indoor parking in -40 C and an oil-burning LTD, I used to keep 10w30 or 5w30 in the trunk for top ups. Does that count as a freezer test?
wink.gif


I wouldn't even try topping up with that, since it simply poured slower than molasses. I would just keep a jug in the car if I was going on a long trip, so it would be warm enough to use.
 
I believe 504 spec 5w30 is the oil that is used in all of Europe now in VAG petrol cars.
 
Right. All 5w30 oils, as far as I know.

I expect they make different arrangements for the crazy cold weather locations in winter.

IMO, without any mitigating factor, in -30C, I'd want an oil that pours WELL below -45C, which excludes a BUNCH of VW approved oils.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Add Petro-Canada Duron-E 0W-40 to the list of oils to try.

Excellent cold-specs on that oil.


Someone stop me! Another for the stash!
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Could I run gc year rond without any problems? The manual says 5w-40 was the factory fill and 0w30 seems a bit light! But gc is a little thicker than advertised isn't it?
 
Originally Posted By: xGTIx
Could I run gc year rond without any problems? The manual says 5w-40 was the factory fill and 0w30 seems a bit light! But gc is a little thicker than advertised isn't it?


You already have a bunch of suggestions related to this question.
Some of us think that the GC would be great in summer, but you should consider a lighter oil for your -30C winter, because the GC gets real thick down near that temp. The Redline 0W-40 remains nice and thin at those temps, and so is probably a better bet than the GC for the winter.

If you REALLY want a single, year-round oil, I'd suggest the Redline 0W-40 as it meets both your cold winter and warm summer variations.
 
I wouldn't count on ANY 0w-40 being thinner than GC at any temp.

It's not designed to be thinner in hot nor cold. I'll see if the visc calc projects otherwise, if you post the specs.
 
Guys, take visco calc results much below 0C with a grain of salt (or two or three) when interpreting the real-world impact.

Quote:
Me: How accurate is your visco calculator from -20C to 100C?

Widman: With most oils it should be accurate until you factor pour point modifiers

Me: Hm OK, how would a PP modifier affect the visco calculator results?

Widman: It flattens out the expected results at low temperatures.


What this actually means? I don't know.
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We consider Widman a SME on this stuff don't we?
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I think at freezing I can predict which oil is thicker. Hmm?


Yes.

At 0C, GC is 366 cSt, Red Line 0w40 is 374 cSt.

This thread is primarily about the full range of -40C to +30C.
 
That's close.

The cold-cranking spec for 0w-40 allows it to be thicker than 0w30 at the same temp. That pretty much locks in 0w30 as the winner.
 
OP, you could ask several VW/Audi shops (including performance shops) nearby (assuming Edmonton or Calgary) and see what they recommend.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
That's close.

The cold-cranking spec for 0w-40 allows it to be thicker than 0w30 at the same temp. That pretty much locks in 0w30 as the winner.


Redline 0W-40 has a cold pour spec of -60C. GC is what, -42C?

There is a WORLD of difference between 0C you are quoting and -30C ...that is 54 degrees F COLDER. Frankly, I don;t see the relevance of discussing 0C here....it's all about the pour points down at those extreme cold temps, and I stick by my recommendation to be concerned about the initial cold startup at -30C.

In my view, GC is absolutely *NOT* any sort of clear "winner" between these two, at -30C...where probably 95% of the OP's motor wear will occur in the first 2 minutes of startup.
 
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Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie

Not sure why you reference pour points...

D

Thread 'Please explain CCS viscosity, ASTM D 5293'

What is CCS viscosity and what is it's relevance of determining cold weather oil performance in relation to Kinematic Viscosity and Pour Point.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

If you don;t see the significance of the pourability (or lack thereof) of GC down at the extreme cold temps around -30C, compared to the Redline, then I guess the conversation is over.
Let's say the temp hits -42C (for arguments sake)...the GC is like jello. It does not flow as a liquid any longer. It requires pumping shear from the oil pump, to force cold, jello-like oil through the small oil passages. The Redline, with its much colder pour point, is very much still a liquid at that temp....it flows normally, albeit thicker than when it is 0C. Which do you think will get to the bearings, cam surfaces, etc faster...and which will show more or less wear?

If you think the 54 degree F difference in the state of the oil (liquid vs semi-solid) that exists between GC and Redline is NOT a factor upon initial winter startup in these extreme temps, then so be it.... We disagree. I know which one I would feel much more comfortable with, at those temps.
 
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The reporting of "Pour Point" is subjective and unreliable. So are actual MRV and CCS numbers, where some companies, like Castrol, present the minimum to meet spec as their published numbers. If Pour Point was the correct test, there would have been no need to develop CCS and MRV.


I can't locate the J300 info I want, where it limits the various grades in actual CCS, such as a 0w-20 being thinner than 0w30 and 0w-40 and so on. It's a basic of the industry and common sense where a 0w-20 or 0w30 is progressively thinner than the heavy grades. Same with 5w30 and 5w-40, where the difference is vast.

I'm done trying to coach this subject. If Redline has their 0w-40 running thinner than GC, great. I crunched the numbers and the REPORTED VI showed an almost unnatural curve. Since there is so much skepticism on the visc calc, I wanted to show the J300 and publish MRV info, but fell short on finding that. If you guys want to go forward with 0w-40 being thinner than 0w30 or 0w-20, have at it. I'm sure Redline 0w30 would do better in cold than their 0w-40, and it has sufficient HT/HS, 3.4 or 3.6cP, so that oil in fact would be the prefered choice at -30c.

My premise it that the oil stays cooler in those temps, and a lighter grade can be substituted, regardless of what "local VW shops" think.
 
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