Group II/II+ versus group III

[farrarfan1]

I have a question regarding group III versus group II/II+. Does a group III with a lesser additive package (Mobil Drive Clean?) provide any better protection than a group II/II+ with a higher level of additives such as moly, boron etc (Chevron/Havoline)? Or does the higher levels of additives in the group II/II+ give that oil any advantage over the group III? I'm referring to conventional oils that meet the same standards such as 5W30 SM GF-4.Thanks.

 

[Brons2]

I chose a synblend over a full PAO synthetic for my diff for this exact reason

Schaeffer's 267 is fulla molly.

 

[427Z06]

I don't think you can predict this one just looking at a few oil specifications. I believe you would need a very controlled scientific experiment to determine which provided "better protection". Even performing a UOA will tell you very little unless you see a magnitude type increase in certain wear metals, or you see a drastic change in other parameters such as TBN, insolubles, viscosity.

Read this thread for more information.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=42;t=000996

Hope that helps.

 

[Dr. T]

No, just like Schaeffer's "Blend" is a better motor oil than M-1...and it's ONLY a blend

And you can't tell the whole story of the addative package by looking at a VOA.

 

[Don Stevens]

I agree with the two previous posts that you can't tell based on simple specifcation and/or Virgin UOAs. It is quite possible a Group Ii with a great additive package can out perform a group III with a weaker additive package.

Look at the photos in the Audi and VW threads of the last 24 hrs. and look at the varnish left behing by the "blends". While that varnish does not hurt anything it convicned me that I want to use a Group III or better base oil for my engines.

Don

 

[brian fix]

why use Mobil drive clean when you can purchase a better lube with a better enhanced add. pack. like the new Phillips semi ,for 1.12 at wally world, or Mystic (midwest Farm and fleet) for 1.29 on sale ,10-30?, I have seen Castrol on sale in various places for 1.49,, yes check the sales on better lubes and stock up,,,BL

 

[austai]

quote:

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Originally posted by brian fix:
why use Mobil drive clean when you can purchase a better lube with a better enhanced add. pack.

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Has there been enough data from the new GF-4 Mobil DC to determine that it's still inferior to others?

 

[Blue99]

quote:

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Does a group III with a lesser additive package (Mobil Drive Clean?) provide any better protection than a group II/II+ with a higher level of additives such as moly, boron etc (Chevron/Havoline)? Or does the higher levels of additives in the group II/II+ give that oil any advantage over the group III?

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Some very good questions that highlight the different formulation paths to passing the GF-4 tests. I think after another 6 months & accumulations of SM/GF-4 dino UOA's, we will have a better picture.

Clearly some changes in additive packages for SM/GF-4, and moly is a good example.

The new Maxlife SM/GF-4 oil lists 300 ppm moly and per all indications is still a Grp 1+/PAO blend. The moly in this case, more than likely, is providing additive help to pass the oxidation requirements of the Sequence IIIG test.

From the recent GF-4, Mobil DC 5W-30 UOA, we see only 23 ppm of moly, quite a drop from the 65-80 level of the of previous DC UOA's.

To me, this is a good example of the better oxidation performance of a Grp III base oil and the declining role of moly as an anti-oxidant, in the add pack, for Grp III oil formulations.

So, bottom line is that the SM/GF-4 requirements have generated some new add pack & base oil combinations and it will take time to sort it all out.

 

[Blue99]

quote:

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Has there been enough data from the new GF-4 Mobil DC to determine that it's still inferior to others?

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Austai - I think you asked this question just to drive home a point.

No, the data & opinions posted to date regarding Mobil GF-4 Drive Clean, especially the 5w-30 formulation, have not been directly verified by any info released by ExxonMobil or by a group of used oil anaysis's.

All indications are that the 5W-20 & 5W-30 DC GF-4 oils are indeed Grp III.

And while many here are familiar with the performance & add pack features for a Grp III "faux synthetic" priced to sell at the level of M1 PAO's, this issue of a low cost Grp III,GF-4 motor oil is new, for the majority of us.